Good morning.
I just want to greet you all in
Jesus' name.
I'm really thankful to be here.
It's just been a long time since we
missed last Sunday.
I really appreciated the opening, Brother Leroy.
I feel like we've been on the receiving
end of that action verb of love now
here the last week or so.
It's very humbling, a very big blessing, and
necessary for the people of God.
I just wanted to share this morning on
a topic I've been thinking about now for
some time, and it's just come into sharper
focus as of late.
Oh, maybe even a year ago, Brother Harvey
talked about it in an opening.
Just wanted to talk more about it, and
as I was sitting here this morning thinking
about it, I just kind of feel...
I think when I started studying for it,
I thought maybe it would be pretty short,
and then it kind of got longer.
Sometimes I feel like some of these topics
are pretty weighty, and it's almost like, especially
when it comes time to actually do it
and to share, it feels almost like I'm
a boy in a hay barn playing with
a book of matches.
If you see that this morning in anything
that I say, just call me out of
the barn and show me how matches are
supposed to be used.
Hopefully that makes sense.
I don't know.
A lot of this stuff is a big
deal, and I wouldn't want to get it
wrong.
Why don't we all stand and pray?
Father, thank you so much for giving us
the ability to meet here this morning and
to fill this place with music of worship
to you.
Father, let our hearts be tuned right, and
God, please give me the ability to speak
this morning and not be overcome by nerves,
or just to be able, Father, to communicate
clearly the things that are on my heart,
and let us all be open, Father, for
correction and reproof and to edify each other.
God, please bless our time together.
Help us to live pleasing to you.
In Jesus' name I pray.
Amen.
I wanted to read an account in Luke
chapter 4, starting
at the beginning of Luke 4 to verse
13, right after Jesus was baptized.
And Jesus, being full of the Holy Ghost,
returned from Jordan and was led by the
Spirit into the wilderness, being forty days tempted
of the devil.
And in those days he did eat nothing,
and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.
And the devil said unto him, If thou
be the Son of God, command this stone,
that it may be made bread.
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written
that man shall not live by bread alone,
but by every word of God.
And the devil, taking him up into a
high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms
of the world in a moment of time.
And the devil said unto him, All this
power will I give thee in the glory
of them, for that is delivered unto me,
and to whomsoever I will I give it.
If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall
be thine.
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get
thee behind me, Satan, for it is written,
Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and
him only shalt thou serve.
And he brought him up to Jerusalem and
set him on a pinnacle of the temple,
and said unto him, If thou be the
Son of God, cast thyself down from hence,
for it is written, He shall give his
angels charge over thee to keep thee.
And in their hands they shall bear thee
up, lest at any time thou dash thy
foot against a stone.
And Jesus answering said unto him, It is
said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy
God.
And when the devil had ended all the
temptation, he departed from him for a season,
or for a more opportune time, I think
is how it's put some places.
There's a lot in this passage.
There's a lot that could be said about
it.
I had written down that two out of
the three attempt, two out of the three
temptations here put forth by Satan are trying
to tempt Jesus to use his power for
deliverance from the physical harm or hardship.
But, and he didn't do it.
But really, I guess, as I read this
again, I almost feel like it's all three
of the instances in some way.
Just one of the instances doesn't use Jesus'
power, it would use the power of Satan
to deliver kingdoms to Jesus himself.
You look at each example here.
I mean, we think about, so Jesus was
fasting for 40 days and 40 nights.
And Jesus offers him deliverance from the suffering
of hunger.
Just use some of your power to turn
these stones into bread.
Then, when he shows him all the kingdoms
of the world in a moment of time
from a high mountain place, those are going
to be long to Christ.
But at the time, at the present, they
were kingdoms of the world and therefore in
Satan's dominion, and he offered him relief from
the suffering that he should have gone through
or that he was going to go through,
if only he would bow down and worship
him.
So there was a deliverance there from the
suffering that was at hand for Jesus.
And then lastly, you know, he tempts Jesus
to use his power to escape physical harm
by falling down.
And I've been thinking about how Satan framed
those things and how he tempted Jesus.
You know, there was a temptation, there was
something in it that was appealing to Jesus'
flesh, otherwise it wouldn't have been temptation.
He had to wrestle with it, he had
to struggle.
I thought, you know, that that wasn't just
a no-brainer for him.
There was a human element to Jesus, and
so he wrestled with this temptation, he wrestled
with these offers of deliverance from suffering, and
he prevailed.
And I've been thinking a lot about that
lately, about suffering.
With this pandemic and living here in a
rural part of the country, it's just really
hard to relate to those that are hardest
hit by this thing, this pandemic, this COVID
-19.
Opinions about this are about as varied as
the different people that we meet.
There's a lot.
And one thought that I've come across, I
guess as I've heard others, especially like in
the realm of Christianity, talking about these things
is an idea that I've heard at other
times too, and it's the thought that true
Christians will be spared hardship or suffering.
And, you know, just believing that and hanging
on to the idea that God will protect
his people.
And hearing that kind of really made me
reflect a lot on, well, what is a
Christian's role in suffering anyway?
I mean, there seems to be a widely
held belief, at least in Western Christianity, that
God always relieves us or spares us of
suffering, and he restores all of life's pleasantries
as they once were, as we remember them,
or as we hope they would be.
Is that accurate?
Is that a right understanding?
I'm not sure where all of that comes
from.
I guess I think maybe one, you know,
Brother Joel has said that sometimes when we
receive the light of the gospel and like
a lot of the wrongs of society and
the wrongs of the world are brought to
our attention, it's like you wake up in
Disneyland, and you decide you don't want to
be there.
And so you can make a decision.
You can figure out how to survive in
Disneyland, or you can leave.
You can leave and go to somewhere that's
not Disneyland.
And Disneyland would be like a reference when
Joel uses it.
I think what he means is that this
is a spoiled country.
There's just every flavor of excess and wealth
and overindulgence available here.
I mean, I think somebody told me a
while ago that like a family of four,
for a week's vacation in Disney World could
spend $10,000 like for a week's vacation.
It just blows me away.
And yet, like in some ways, that's kind
of our reality living here in the United
States is that there's just this overabundance.
So I think some of these ideas about
escaping suffering or that like somehow we ought
to be spared from any kind of suffering
come from this innate attitude that's embedded in
us from living in a country with a
lot of material wealth.
I've heard this idea expressed at different times
throughout my Christian journey about God's people being
spared from any kind of hardship.
I mean, I've heard it from people that
have a copy of Martyr's Mirror or Fox's
Book of Martyrs on their bookshelf.
And something just seems a little bit off.
And so I kind of wanted to dive
into that this morning.
This passage on Christ's temptation came to my
mind.
Satan preyed on Jesus's weakness in his flesh
by offering deliverance from his physical hardship.
And I believe that there can be a
sinister twisting of God's truth that leads people
to believe that we'll always be delivered or
spared.
And so one question I have this morning
is like, well, assuming that that's not the
case, what promises do we have concerning suffering?
I want to turn to another passage in
Luke chapter 21.
I'm a little scripture heavy this morning, so
I'll try to do a good job and
get through it all.
Luke chapter 21 verses 5 to 28.
Let's see what Jesus has to say.
This is, I wrote down, this is suffering
according to Jesus.
Starting in verse 5.
And as some spake of the temple, how
it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts,
he said, as for these things which ye
behold, the days will come in the which
there shall not be left one stone upon
another that shall not be thrown down.
And they asked him, saying, Master, but when
shall these things be?
And what sign will there be when these
things shall come to pass?
And he said, take heed that ye be
not deceived, for many shall come in my
name, saying, I am Christ.
And the time draweth near.
Go ye not therefore after them, but when
ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be
not terrified.
For these things must first come to pass,
but the end is not by and by.
Then said he unto them, nation shall rise
nation and kingdom against kingdom, and great earthquakes
shall be in diverse places and famines and
pestilences and fearful sites.
And great signs shall there be from heaven.
But before all these, they shall lay their
hands on you and persecute you, delivering you
up to the synagogues and into prisons, being
brought before kings and rulers for my name's
sake.
And it shall turn to you for a
testimony.
Settle it therefore in your hearts not to
meditate before what you shall answer.
For I will give you a mouth and
wisdom which all your adversaries shall not be
able to gainsay nor resist.
And ye shall be betrayed both by parents
and brethren and kinsfolks and friends.
And some of you shall they cause to
be put to death.
And ye shall be hated of all men
for my name's sake.
But there shall not a hair of your
head perish, for in your patience possess ye
your souls.
And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with
armies, then know that the desolation thereof is
nigh.
Then let them which are in Judea flee
to the mountains, and let them which are
in the midst of it depart out, and
let not them that are in the countries
enter thereinto.
For these be the days of vengeance, that
all things which are written may be fulfilled.
But woe unto them that are with child,
and to them that give suck in those
days.
For there shall be great distress in the
land and wrath upon this people.
And they shall fall by the edge of
the sword and shall be led away captive
into all nations.
And Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the
Gentiles until the time of the Gentiles be
fulfilled.
There's a lot about suffering in this passage.
Jesus tells us that we will stand before
men to be condemned for the purpose of
testimony.
He tells us that he will give us
wisdom that cannot be refuted.
He tells us that we will be hated
for Jesus' namesake.
He says that our patience will be tested,
and therein lies your soul.
He says that we will not be eternally
harmed.
He says that women and babies will suffer.
And he says that men who have this
knowledge will panic and be incapacitated by fear,
knowing what is coming.
I want to hear some more of what
Jesus had to say in chapter 9, verses
21 to 26.
I'm going to actually start in verse 20.
He said unto them, But whom say you
that I am?
Peter answering said, The Christ of God.
And he straightly charged them and commanded them
to tell no man that thing, saying, The
Son of Man must suffer many things and
be rejected of the elders and chief priests
and scribes and be slain and be raised
the third day.
And he said to them all, If any
man will come after me, let him deny
himself and take up his cross daily and
follow me.
For whosoever will save his life shall lose
it, but whosoever will lose his life for
my sake, the same shall save it.
For what is a man advantaged if he
gain the whole world and lose himself or
be cast away?
For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and
of my words, of him shall the Son
of Man be ashamed when he shall come
in his own glory and in his father's
and of the holy angels.
I picked this verse or this passage.
I mean, this is in a few of
the gospels.
And I picked the one in Luke here
because he said that we ought to daily
take up our cross and follow him.
So there is this element of daily self
-denial and suffering.
I want to turn to Jesus' charge to
his 12 when he was getting ready to
send his 12 out on their missionary journey.
He had some advice for them in Matthew
chapter 10, which is actually very similar to
things that he says about these latter days.
Matthew chapter 10 verses 16 to 42.
That's kind of a long one.
Here's what he tells his 12 as he's
getting ready to send them out to go
preaching the gospel in the different cities.
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in
the midst of wolves.
Be therefore wise as serpents and harmless as
doves, but beware of men, for they will
deliver you up to the councils and they
will scourge you in their synagogues.
And you shall be brought before governors and
kings for my sake, for a testimony against
them and the Gentiles.
But when they deliver you up, take no
thought how or what you shall speak, for
it shall be given you in that same
hour what you shall speak.
For it is not you that speak, but
the spirit of your father, which speaketh in
you.
And the brother shall deliver up the brother
to death and the father, the child and
the children shall rise up against their parents
and cause them to be put to death.
And you shall be hated of all men
for my name's sake.
But he that endureth to the end shall
be saved.
But when they persecute you in this city,
flee ye into another.
For verily I say unto you, ye shall
not have gone over the cities of Israel
till the son of man become.
The disciple is not above his master, nor
the servant above his Lord.
It is enough for the disciple that he
be as his master and the servant as
his Lord.
If they have called the master of the
house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call
them of his household?
Fear them not therefore, for there is nothing
covered that shall not be revealed and hid
that shall not be known.
What I tell you in darkness, that speak
ye in the light.
And what you hear in the ear, that
preach ye upon the housetops.
And fear not them which kill the body,
but are not able to kill the soul,
but rather fear him which is able to
destroy both soul and body in hell.
Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing?
And one of them shall not fall on
the ground without your father.
But the very hairs of your head are
all numbered.
Fear not therefore, ye are of more value
than many sparrows.
Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him
will I confess also before my Father, which
is in heaven.
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him
will I also deny before my Father, which
is in heaven.
Think not that I am come to send
peace on earth.
I came not to send peace, but a
sword.
For I am come to set a man
at variance against his father, and the daughter
against her mother, and the daughter-in-law
against her mother-in-law.
And a man's foes shall be they of
his own household.
He that loveth father or mother more than
me is not worthy of me.
And he that loveth son or daughter more
than me is not worthy of me.
And he that taketh not his cross and
followeth after me is not worthy of me.
He that findeth his life shall lose it,
and he that loseth his life for my
sake shall find it.
He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he
that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
He that receiveth a prophet in the name
of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward,
and he that receiveth a righteous man in
the name of a righteous man shall receive
a righteous man's reward.
And whosoever shall give to drink unto one
of these little ones a cup of cold
water only in the name of a disciple,
verily I say unto you, he shall in
no wise lose his reward.
I just kind of see a pattern.
I see these ideas echoed, even though these
are the instructions to the twelve.
These are ideas that are echoed throughout all
of Jesus' teachings.
In Luke 21, when Jesus talks about that
temple, he talks about a lot of suffering
happening the world over.
And I believe that this suffering is not
something that's exclusive to unbelievers.
I think the people who are zealous for
the kingdom of God will suffer right alongside
the people of this world that are in
straits, whether it's a pandemic or a drought
or a famine or a pestilence.
I don't see anywhere where we're actually spared
from those things.
But also, beyond the troubles that are mentioned
in Luke 21, when Jesus talks about these
latter days, we're also going to suffer above
and beyond at the hands of men.
It's something that's nearly a guarantee.
And it's just notable that we can expect
more of the same treatment our Master received,
especially if we bear his message.
There are so many passages that talk to
this, and I'm trying to keep it concise,
but one I think of for sure is
in when he says all those who will
live godly will suffer persecution.
It's just nearly a guarantee.
And a noteworthy passage, I guess maybe I
could just read part of it.
I don't want time to run away, but
in Romans 8, everybody's familiar with it, but
it's just a short little passage.
I'm just going to skim through it.
Paul says to the church in Rome, Who
shall lay anything to the charge of God's
elect?
It is God that justifieth.
Who is he that condemneth?
It is Christ that died, yea, rather, that
is risen again.
Who is even at the right hand of
God, who also maketh intercession for us?
Who shall separate us from the love of
Christ?
Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine,
or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
As it is written, For thy sake we
are killed all the day long.
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more
than conquerors through him that loved us.
For I am persuaded that neither death, nor
life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor
things present, nor things to come, nor height,
nor depth, nor any other creature shall be
able to separate us from the love of
God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
So like, why all the suffering?
This is like a dismal picture.
I mean, it's kind of discouraging.
What's the purpose?
Why?
Why all the suffering?
I mean, this is really, when you think
about like a lot of messages in mainstream
Christianity, the focus is really, and there's an
element to this that's true, but again, it's
like somehow, somehow the proper balance has been
disrupted and corrupted, and the whole emphasis is
on an improved life by switching to an
allegiance in Jesus.
And it's a completely different message.
It's a completely different way to look at
things, and maybe it helps a little bit
to know why.
And in part, I think we find part
of the answer in 1 Peter chapter 2.
1 Peter chapter 2, 11 to 25.
Dearly beloved, Peter says, I beseech you as
strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which
war against the soul.
Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles, that
whereas they speak evil against you as evildoers,
they may, by your good works, which they
shall behold, glorify God in the day of
visitation.
I would hope that some of that means
that there would be some repentance.
I would hope that some people would be
won by godly behavior, by righteousness, especially when
you're being slandered.
But that's not what it says here.
It says that they will glorify God in
the day of visitation.
And I think this isn't an idea that's
original with me, but I think some of
that, like, God will receive glory not just
from people who have persevered to the end,
who have gained the crown of life, but
he's also going to receive glory from those
who who lived a life in opposition to
God and confess him even through their punishing.
He receives glory from the sheep and from
the goats, not just from one.
In verse 13, he says, Submit yourselves to
every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake,
whether it be to the king as supreme
or unto governors, as unto them that are
sent by him for the punishment of evildoers
and for the praise of them that do
well.
For so is the will of God that
with well-doing you may put to silence
the ignorance of foolish men as free and
not using your liberty for a cloak of
maliciousness.
But as the servants of God, honor all
men, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the
king.
Servants, be subject to your masters with all
fear, not only to the good and gentle,
but also to the forward, for this is
thankworthy.
If a man for conscience toward God endure
grief, suffering wrongfully, suffering wrongfully, for what glory
is it?
If when you be buffeted for your faults,
you shall take it patiently.
But if when you do well and suffer
for it, you take it patiently.
This is acceptable with God.
For even here unto were ye called because
Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an
example that ye should follow his steps.
Who did no sin, neither was guile found
in his mouth.
A righteous response amidst unbelievers will bring glory
to God when he comes again.
And righteous behavior amidst suffering also brings glory
to God.
So part of the reason, part of the
why, is the testimony that it brings to
the rest of the world.
But like, it begs the question, what I
want to get into next is like, well,
what about deliverance?
I mean, this has been pretty one-sided
so far.
I've kind of had a heavy hand on
the idea that God will deliver us from
our suffering and that actually we're called to
suffer.
So does God not deliver his own, as
Satan suggested to Jesus?
And I'd say, sure he does.
Sure.
I mean, just think about some of the
examples that we have, you know, available to
us without even like the testimony of those
in the church, just in the scriptures alone.
Peter was miraculously delivered from prison by the
angel.
Paul was spared suffering and death from a
snake bite.
Jesus's would-be murderers were frozen as they
were about to throw him headlong off of
a cliff.
He walked through their midst and escaped them.
And I mean, there are so many examples
of that.
And even like in personal testimony, I think
everybody has an example of being spared something
terrible.
And so I'm not trying to take away
from that.
I think that it's clear that God works
in some of those ways.
But there's other kinds of deliverance too, that
don't just come from being spared something uncomfortable
or unpleasant or worse.
I think about Joseph suffering, not just hours,
not just days, not just weeks, but for
years as a slave and in prison.
That was God's will.
That was Joseph's testimony is that it was
God's will, and that it was part of
a plan bigger than Joseph to spare Jacob
and all of Israel.
I think about Stephen, he delivered, he was
filled with the Holy Ghost and he delivered
one of the most powerful sermons ever.
And his deliverance came through being stoned to
death.
I just, well, I don't know.
I guess I never really ceased to be
blown away by Paul and the things that
happened to Paul.
I mean, he's got some in both lists.
He's got some in the list where like
he was delivered from terrible things and he
didn't have to suffer.
And then he's got these accounts of horrible
suffering.
And I'm going to turn to, I always
think I need to do this with caution,
but in 2 Corinthians 11, he kind of
gives a little rundown.
I think nobody can say it better than
Paul himself, of all the things that have
happened to him, just a little list.
And I think it's important not to take
this out of its context, which is that
Paul is telling people not to glory as
men and not to glory in their feats
and their accomplishments and not to glory in
suffering.
In other words, boast.
So it's important to say that he's putting
these people, he's trying to put these people
in their right place by telling them not
to be boastful and not to be proud.
It is not a list of bragging.
I just feel like to read this, it's
important to put that in context.
I'm going to read chapter 11, verse 23
through chapter 12, verse 1.
I'm in the wrong chapter.
Let's see.
Are they ministers of Christ?
I speak as a fool.
I am more, in labors more abundant, in
stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in
deaths oft.
Of the Jews, five times received I forty
stripes, save one.
I think that might just about kill a
man, you know, to be lashed forty times,
thirty-nine times.
Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was
I stoned.
Thrice I suffered shipwreck.
A night and a day I have been
in the deep.
In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in
perils of robbers, in perils by mine own
countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils
in the city, in perils in the wilderness,
in perils in the sea, in perils among
false brethren, in weariness and painfulness, in watchings
often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often,
in cold and nakedness, beside those things that
are without, that which cometh upon me daily,
the care of all the churches.
I don't know.
Who is weak, and I am not weak?
Who is offended, and I burn not?
For if I must needs glory, I will
glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.
I'll just stop there.
I'm also blown away, I mean, any of
these things in here, like I have this
thought, I mean, yeah, just about Paul, the
one where he was stoned outside of, where
he was stoned outside of Lystra, I think,
and then he was dragged out of the,
no, he was stoned in Lystra, and then
he was dragged out of the city and
walked to Derby.
Like, they didn't just throw a few rocks
to, you know, shake him up a little
bit.
Like, it was attempted murder, and maybe they
were even successful.
I mean, maybe he was really killed, you
know, but somehow, I mean, I just, I
always have this picture of like, okay, you
know, like he's been dragged out of the
city, he's done, I guess it's time to
take care of him, and like, and he
like, he gets up and like dusts himself
off and goes into the next city to
preach some more.
I just can't relate to that.
It's just this, I mean, if I receive
scorn of somebody for sharing a truth of
the scriptures, like, it hurts.
Like, but he received the ultimate scorn.
They're like, not only do we not agree
with what you're saying, and we're gonna kill
you for it.
And then he got up and like went
to tell more people.
I'm just blown away by that.
I was thinking about all of these things,
and I guess there's one thing in particular
about Paul I just want to read because
I think it's relevant in the vision to,
I think it was Ananias, Acts chapter 9
verses 10 to 16.
Okay, so Paul is blind.
He's still Saul at this point, and the
Lord's got a message for Ananias.
And there was a certain disciple at Damascus
named Ananias, and to him said the Lord
in a vision, Ananias.
And he said, behold, I am here, Lord.
And the Lord said unto him, arise and
go into the street which is called straight,
and inquire in the house of Judas for
one called Saul of Tarsus.
For behold, he prayeth.
And he hath seen in a vision a
man named Ananias coming in and putting his
hand on him that he might receive his
sight.
Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard many,
I have heard by many of this man
how much evil he hath done to thy
saints of Jerusalem.
And here he hath authority from the chief
priests to bind all that call on the
name.
But the Lord said unto him, go thy
way, for he is a chosen vessel unto
me to bear my name before the Gentiles
and kings and the children of Israel.
For I will show him how great things
he must suffer for my name's sake.
That was, these sufferings that I've been talking
about with Paul were a part of God's
will for his ministry and for the way
that he was going to reach people.
And I've just in all of these examples,
like I tried to think of one, because
like the scripture is a story, it's a
story of people's suffering and how they dealt
with it and how they turned to God.
And there are just so many stories that
you could touch or turn to, to try
to explain the subject of suffering.
And the one that just really struck me
was one of Jesus himself.
And somebody who suffered right next to him
in Luke 23 verses 26 to 49.
I'll just start reading.
And as they led him away, they laid
hold upon one Simon and a Cyrenian coming
out of the country and on him, they
laid the cross that he might bear it
after Jesus.
And there followed him a great company of
people and of women, which also bewailed and
lamented him.
But Jesus turning unto them said, daughters of
Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for
yourselves and for your children.
For behold, the days are coming in the
which they shall say, blessed are the barren
and the wombs that never bear in the
paps, which never gave suck.
Then shall they begin to say to the
mountains fall on us and to the hills
cover us for if they do these things
in a green tree, what shall be done
in the dry.
And there were also with, there were also
two others male factors led with him to
be put to death.
And when they were come to the place,
which is called Calvary, there they crucified him
in the male factors, one on the right
hand and the other on the left.
Then said Jesus, father, forgive them for they
know not what they do.
And they parted his raiment and cast lots.
And the people stood beholding.
And the rulers also with them derided him
saying he saved others.
Let him save himself.
If he be Christ, the chosen of God.
And the soldiers also mocked him coming to
him and offering him vinegar and saying, if
thou be the king of the Jews, save
thyself.
And a superscription also was written over him
in letters of Greek and Latin and Hebrew.
This is the king of the Jews.
And one of the male factors, which were
hanged, railed on him saying, if thou be
Christ, save thyself and us.
But the other answering rebuked him saying, dost
not thou fear God seeing thou art in
the same condemnation and we indeed justly, for
we receive the due reward of our deeds.
But this man has done nothing amiss.
And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me
when thou comest into thy kingdom.
And Jesus said unto him, verily, I say
unto thee today, shalt thou be with me
in paradise.
And it was about the sixth hour and
there was a darkness over all the earth
until the ninth hour.
And the sun was darkened and the veil
of the temple was rent in the midst.
And when Jesus had cried with a loud
voice, he said, Father, into thy hands, I
commend my spirit.
And having said thus, he gave up the
ghost.
It's an incredible story.
Jesus told the women who were following after
him and wailing that there would be suffering
to come.
And as he was, I just think like,
if we have the premise that God is
always going to deliver us from suffering, if
we just call on his name, that his
will is always to save us from something,
then we would have to believe that when
this man turned to Jesus and said, remember
me when you come into your kingdom, that
he would have walked off the cross and
been spared anything.
I don't know.
I want to hear your thoughts too on
this.
But like when Jesus turned to him and
he says, verily, I say unto you today,
you will be with me in paradise.
Like there's no offer there from the trial
at hand of deliverance.
Deliverance, even though Jesus doesn't say this or
say it this way, he tells the man
where they're going to meet again.
But the deliverance is going to come through
suffering and through death.
And then they die together.
It took that suffering of Jesus to be
able to say to that man that together
they'd be in paradise that day.
Because had he not suffered, he wouldn't have
said that to the man.
I wanted to shift to something before I
go into, because I think it's important.
Like this all has a point, and there's
something that we do have, and it's in
this story that we just read.
I read an article this last week, and
I found it kind of disturbing.
It's from 2019, and it's about black vultures.
There's a vulture.
They're the turkey vultures, which are big, and
they're pretty harmless.
They're docile.
They're good for the ecosystem.
Black vultures are good too.
They're not as big.
They're about five pounds, and their wingspan is
about five feet.
They've been pressing up higher into the U
.S. than they used to be.
They're now into southern Indiana.
They used to range from South America up
to the southern states, and now they're up
into Indiana today.
What's unique about the black vulture is that
they're more aggressive.
I learned something too in reading about this,
and that's that vultures know where carcasses are,
even above a tree canopy, because they have
a very keen sense of smell, and they
can smell when an animal has died.
It gives off a kind of a gas
that they're designed to pick up on, and
so these black vultures...
Turkey vultures are more solitary animals, and they
always are looking for something that's dead.
However, a black vulture kind of relies on
other vultures to smell for them, because they
don't have that keen sense of smell that
a turkey vulture has, or like a king
vulture.
So sometimes they can be seen following those.
Rather than being solitary, a black vulture will
actually feed in flocks.
Sometimes I think I've put some of the
accounts I've read set up to 60 birds
at a time, and they will actually drive
off other vultures.
But one thing about the black vulture is
that if they get hungry, they'll go after
live meat.
There's been a big problem among cattle farmers
in Kentucky and Indiana, especially where this story
came from was Indiana, and they'll target animals
that are vulnerable.
And I just want you to hear, there's
one farmer in here, and he explains how
they do it.
These birds are incredibly intelligent, these vultures are.
And so they've kind of got, like when
they develop a taste for something that's alive
still, they're very strategic in how they
bring down an animal.
Now remember, they're about five, it's about a
five-pound bird.
Here's what this man says, I'm just going
to read his account.
Lawson said he's noticed more vultures since 2009
when he thinks they started nesting near Fox
Hollow Farm.
He plans his year around the predatory habits
of the vultures, which circle the skies and
wait of anything dead or vulnerable.
He remembers one eerie morning that he saw
a flock of 60 vultures perched on adjacent
gates in one of his fields.
He mainly worries about them during calving season
when they like to feast on easy marks.
His 2019 calving season opened with him topping
a hill and seeing six vultures pecking a
calf to death.
Here's what he says, they like to play
with the newborns, he said.
They'll hop around and get the calf comfortable
with them before they peck out their eyes.
Then they can't see, he said, so they
take them over.
The whole process from the playful taunt to
the complete skinning doesn't take long at all,
he added.
Depending on the size, it may only take
minutes.
They're very efficient at what they do.
Lawson said Fox Hollow hasn't lost any full
-grown cows to the vultures, but the birds
have taken down full-grown ewes while in
labor when both the mother and its baby
are vulnerable.
He remembers finding a ewe once that had
been in process of giving birth when she
was attacked.
A full-grown ewe weighs between 160 and
180 pounds.
That's all.
Uh, I just, I mean, I, that bothers
me.
That account is like, it's uh, it bothers
me, but I think like we get this
idea about the adversary, about Satan, that like
he's only interested in, in the spiritually dead
and wreaking havoc among them, you know.
But, but it's not true, like he's, he's
also got a taste for, for something live
and something fresh.
And if, and if he sensed vulnerability, he'll,
he'll pounce on it.
And I think that like, I mean, I
was especially thinking about this method where like,
these vultures, I think Satan operates a lot
like them.
You know, they, they taunt an innocent newborn
calf, get it comfortable with them, and then
they attack it, pecking out its eyes.
And when it's blind, that's when they really,
that's when they really go after the thing
and bring it down.
And, and, and sometimes I think like when
we have real dogmatic ideas, they can get
us into uncomfortable corners.
Like saying that God always delivers us from
trouble.
Uh, it's not necessarily consistent with the scriptures.
Uh, sometimes deliverance comes through other forms like
time, perseverance, or even death.
And so if we are expecting deliverance from
a problem, if we're expecting, and I'm not
saying it's wrong to pray for that, I
think that's good.
I think we should.
But if we're expecting like a deliverance from
any discomfort or any suffering at all, uh,
and that's not what happens, we can kind
of be like those poor calves.
Um, you know, we feel injured or betrayed
by God because we know that like He's
somebody who does bring deliverance and He does,
He cares about suffering.
It says that He knows, like I read
a while ago, that like He, He takes
note when even a sparrow falls to the
ground.
So aren't we much more value than a
sparrow?
And if we, if it doesn't work that
way for us, if we have to suffer
through something, we can, we can miss God's
will for us and even become blind to
what the scripture is actually saying about suffering.
Then we'll doubt God and become vulnerable to
the adversary's attacks.
Uh, I mean, I just thought I'd share
like, another one is, is like one of
these dogmatic ideas, not necessarily about suffering, but
just to help, help understand like what I'm
trying to say is about faith.
Like, and I've, there's, I've seen this, you
know, in some circles, this idea and kind
of the fruits of it.
Um, but I saw like a plaque that
you can hang on the wall and it
just like, it just so like concisely and
clearly puts forth this, this dogmatic idea that
I think gets people in a tight corner.
And it's this, faith isn't believing God can,
it's knowing he already has.
Um, and so like one personal story, like
when we had my first daughter, um, my
wife had this condition called placenta previa.
And, uh, and that means that, that the
placenta is in the way the baby can't,
can't get out because of where the placenta
attached to the uterine wall.
And so it's an automatic surgery.
Um, but we were, I mean, we were
really disappointed.
We wanted to have a natural birth.
And so we prayed hard.
We prayed fervently for this, for this placenta
to move away, which is a possibility.
And, um, the doctor humored us.
I mean, even up to like, we had
to schedule the, the cesarean, the surgery to
get, to get the baby.
And, and the day of we, we had
the doctor bring an ultrasound machine into the
room, even though like scientifically and, and probably
speaking, you know, like by, by how things
have progressed, it was impossible that this placenta
would be moved.
But we were, we were like, God's going
to do this for us.
He just is.
And so we, we had the ultrasound and
there it was, it was in the way.
And we had to go ahead with surgery.
And it just, it was like a season
of really struggling with like, well, what went
wrong?
What happened?
Like, why didn't, why didn't God do that
for us?
And, um, it's one of those corners we
can get backed into when, when we, when
we just only have like a partial truth
or not, not the full truth about what
something is and how it should be.
There was another, like, and I find this
even more grievous, but like a friend of
ours had a parent who died and, uh,
and, and she would be in more like
a, you know, it'd be like more of
a Pentecostal persuasion for lack of a better
term.
And that's, and a lot of this idea
comes out of that about faith, you know,
like faith is, isn't believing God can, but
it's knowing that he already has.
And, and so like, that's where a lot
of the claimant comes from, you know, and
name it and claim it circles.
It's like, listen, like we all agree that
this person is healed.
They are healed.
We're going to talk about it like they're
healed.
And if they're not healed, it's because somebody
here didn't believe.
And so this, this person carried with them
for years, the idea that, that their mother
had died because they didn't have the faith
to heal the cancer.
And I mean, how, how, how easily can
the enemy, can the adversary take something like
that and just use it to, to really
divide you and create a wedge between you
and, and God?
And I think, and I think that if
we don't understand suffering properly, if we don't
understand that it's something that we will face,
that we will have to go through, and
that that even can be the will of
God, I think it can put us in
a similar predicament.
It's a pretty bleak picture so far.
So I just wanted to move into something
a little bit more positive and talk about
like, what, what do we have?
What kind of a promise do we have
to cope with, with some of these grievous
things?
John 14 and verses 15 to 27 says
this, if you love me, keep my commandments,
and I will pray the father and he
shall give you another comforter that he may
abide with you forever.
Even the spirit of truth, whom the world
cannot receive because it seeth him not, neither
knoweth him, but you know him for he
dwelleth with you and shall be in you.
I will not leave you comfortless.
I will come to you yet a little
while and the world seeth me no more.
But ye see me because I live, ye
shall live also.
At that day, you shall know that I
am in my father and ye in me
and I in you.
He that hath my commandments and keepeth them,
he it is that loveth me and he
that loveth me shall be loved of my
father and I will love him and will
manifest myself to him.
Judas said unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how
is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto
us and not unto the world?
Jesus answered and said unto him, if a
man loved me, he will keep my words
and my father will love him and we
will come unto him and make our abode
with him.
He that loveth me not keepeth not my
sayings and the word which he hear is
not mine, but the father's which sent me.
These things have I spoken unto you, being
yet present with you.
But the comforter, which is the Holy Ghost,
whom the father will send in my name,
he shall teach you all things and bring
all things to your remembrance whatsoever I have
said unto you.
Peace I leave with you, my peace I
give unto you.
Not as the world giveth, give I unto
you.
Let not your heart be troubled, neither let
it be afraid.
Jesus does promise us the comforter, the Holy
Ghost.
It's a promise we have.
And like the story of the thief on
the cross, like Jesus went through that with
that man in the physical, but his promise
is to go through all of these challenges
with us in the spiritual.
Like his presence with us is a promise
that we have to face these challenges, to
face these things.
Just a short one in the very end
of Matthew, the Great Commission.
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
All power is given unto me in heaven
and in earth.
Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing
them in the name of the Father and
of the Son and of the Holy Ghost,
teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I
have commanded you.
And lo, I am with you always, even
unto the end of the world.
Amen.
I just want to wrap up my thoughts
here.
I don't believe it's sound to say either
that we will be spared all suffering or
that we will only suffer.
I think God operates through his saints both
ways.
One thing is sure, and that is that
suffering will come in one form or another.
And we will suffer alongside the rest of
the world.
So we have a decision when those things
happen to us.
We can choose to be dismayed and slip
into discouragement and be a prime target for
Satan, or we can take it patiently and
we can know that Jesus is with us
and that he takes note and special care
of our suffering.
That will bring glory to God.
And I just wanted to, part of Jesus's
message to the church at Laodicea to close.
I guess his message to the church at
Laodicea.
Angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,
these things saith the amen, the faithful and
true witness, the beginning of the creation of
God.
I know thy works that thou art neither
cold nor hot.
I would thou work cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm and neither
cold nor hot, I will spew thee out
of my mouth, because thou sayest, I am
rich and increased with goods and have need
of nothing.
And knowest not that thou art wretched and
miserable and poor and blind and naked.
I counsel thee to buy of me gold
tried in the fire, that thou mayest be
rich and white raiment, that thou mayest be
clothed and that the shame of thy nakedness
do not appear and anoint thine eyes with
thyself that thou mayest see.
And as many as I love, I rebuke
and chasten, be zealous therefore and repent.
Behold, I stand at the door and knock.
If any man hear my voice and open
the door, I will come into him and
will sup with him and he with me.
To him that overcometh will I grant to
sit with me in my throne, even as
I also overcame and am set down with
my father in his throne.
He that hath an ear to hear, let
him hear what the Spirit saith unto the
churches."
I just find those last few verses especially
encouraging.
That's not to push a message at all
of experiential salvation or to discredit somebody with
an experience in salvation.
It's just an assurance of Jesus' willingness to
commune with and sup with anybody who chooses
to follow him.
I find that encouraging.
God bless you all and I'm really glad
to be here.
Thank you brothers for sharing.
Not sure that I have any great ideas
or I agree with the idea that we
will suffer persecution.
I also had the thought that I'm thankful
I don't have to choose what that is.
I guess we all often think how we
might die.
It's comforting to me to know that I
don't have to decide that.
I think maybe suffering would be the same,
but there is something that we can do.
There's this one thought I had when Leroy
was sharing.
Combined with the thought of the church that
did all these good things, but they had
lost their first love.
I have often pondered about that.
I don't know if I shared this thought.
I think it's my own thought.
But it seems to me
like that first love or that there's something
in us where we sell out to God.
We're going to go the whole way.
We're going to forsake all.
We're going to allow Christ to teach us.
We're going to allow Him to lead us.
When we make a decision that it's based
upon truth or it's based upon what Jesus
taught us instead of our feelings or things
we've heard.
We lay down our lives for that.
We forsake all for that.
I just tend to think this is what
happened to that church.
They did good things.
They did right things.
They started off right.
We know this in looking at history of
churches, how churches fall away.
Instead of making their decision based on the
truth, they make their decisions based on other
things.
I'm not sure what all examples.
Maybe just like the church where I came
from, I grew up in.
Technically, they taught the right things, but I
don't think they were making decisions based on
conviction of the heart.
Their decisions were not made anymore on what
Jesus taught, but rather what they had been
doing.
I'm not sure if it's an exact parallel,
but I think there's something similar about it.
This is something we should never lose, is
to continue walking in that way of basing
our decisions on truth and righteousness and holiness
of Christ and walking in His will.
Anyways, it's been encouraging.
I thank you and I'm thankful to be
here.
May God bless us all.
Yeah, I'm thankful to be here too.
I guess you kind of covered some of
my thoughts there, Walter, and some of that
was based on a comment by Duane, just
how that church just had all these good
things.
I just appreciate bringing that to the attention.
They couldn't tolerate evil people.
They wouldn't put up with false people, things
like that.
I wonder if some of that has to
do with a commitment that surely all of
us have made, or surely these people have
made, and they weren't quite willing to continue
with that.
If we committed ourselves to follow the Lord,
and who here could say that we knew
exactly what that all would entail?
All of us probably have faith things that
we didn't know about whenever we did this
thing, this acceptance of the true faith and
this walk that we saw that we need
to do, and we set out to do
it.
We say, yes, Lord, we're going to do
it, but then maybe years later something comes
up unexpectedly that we say, no, Lord.
It seems like maybe that would be the
big offense to God or to His kingdom
that makes that scripture there that you read,
Duane, so weighty.
I just want to take that to heart
and ponder on it more.
I appreciate the message, Max.
I just really thought I could follow along.
Maybe there was one certain point I want
to think about some more.
Not anything you said, but just a certain
scripture about the ungodly glorifying God.
I haven't really looked at that much.
There's just a lot about suffering that I
don't understand.
I think maybe it's more and more clear,
but I think it's just bad if we
go about life looking for just the fleshly
good things, and then if they don't quite
happen, then that affects our mood and our
emotions and things.
That's just not good.
Part of the fruit of the Spirit is
to be tempered, and it's just something you
need to work on.
That's all.
I just really appreciate being here.
Greetings in the name of Jesus.
Thank you, Brother Leroy and Max, for your
labors there.
I just wanted to read a couple verses
here.
1 Peter 4, verse 1 says, For as
much then as Christ hath suffered for us
in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the
same mind.
And also, in John 15, Jesus said, Remember
the word that I said unto you, the
servant is not greater than his Lord.
If they have persecuted me, they will also
persecute you.
If they have kept my saying, they'll keep
yours also.
So it shouldn't be any surprise if we
should expect certain persecution at some point in
our lives.
Like you said, not all will be persecuted,
but as the Church as a whole, the
Church of God will be persecuted at some
points of time.
But thank you.
Lord bless you.
Amen, Brother Max.
There's so many good points that I had
to comment on.
Like Leroy's, it's a great exhortation.
Like Brother Walter said, well, basically paraphrasing what
Walter said about counting the cost.
It's something we count the cost.
We should before we accept that the Lord
is our Lord.
Going back to why we're suffering, like Paul
could have said when he won 2 Corinthians
11, Paul could have said, this thorn in
the flesh, whatever that is.
I don't know what the thorn in the
flesh is, but I think it's eyesight.
But the thorn in the flesh, why?
His response was obvious.
I mean, not obvious, but it's what we
have.
My grace is sufficient for you, for Paul.
And so his grace is sufficient.
I know in John's gospel, it says, say,
these Greeks came up to Philip and then
they went up to, who's the other Greek?
Philip and could have been Daniel or Thomas.
And so we like to see Jesus.
And Jesus's response was, uh, unless a grain
of wheat falls into the ground, it cannot
be a fruit.
So playing Jeopardy, or what's the question they
must've said, or not the question, but what
was the, uh, brain teaser?
What was the, what was the, what was
the, uh, suggestion that these Greeks wanted to
ask Jesus was probably, we, we can, we
can, uh, we can protect you.
We'll give you refuge.
We'll take you away with us.
You know, and we know they're about to
destroy you and kill you, but we'll, we
get power, we get money, just get away
from these, these Jews.
We'll, we'll give you, we'll give you help.
And his response was no, unless a grain
of wheat falls in the ground.
And so, um, uh, yeah, the, the way
up is down.
Humility is, is, is, is, is the way
it's not tried.
And, uh, one of the Psalms, I thought
of Psalm 73, it says, uh, the wicked,
they have, they have no anti, uh, anti
prosperity claimant gospel.
The wicked, they have no, uh, pains in
their death.
They lived their whole life, whatever, without ever
having to go to the doctor and it's
rich in prosperity.
But, but the Psalmist says in a moment
how they are utterly destroyed, they're cast down.
And so the suffering is, uh, the wicked
of Psalm 73.
I thought of that.
Justin Martyr said, we do have a debt
to pay everyone.
We're all going to die.
Every one of us is going to die.
Why not die the way helping the poor,
uh, telling about the gospel and do those
things.
I've been meeting Justin Martyr lately and that
we all have a debt to pay.
Why don't we do it in following in
the footsteps of the Lord.
And one point you could have, if you
kept on going further, I know it would
be, uh, at the beginning, uh, the, uh,
the Sermon on the Mount.
And Jesus said, blessed are the poor in
spirit.
And he builds up and he said, blessed
are those who persecute you and blessed are
those who revile you.
And that's counting the cost.
And, uh, they don't want to hear that
today.
It's, I mean, it's sad.
We pray for them.
They want it.
And you had all those excellent points.
The Lord be magnified.
Jesus knows our strength and weakness.
Understand we are but friends.