I suppose it's very difficult for us to
be quiet down after such a fiery session.
May we look to the Lord in prayer.
Our Heavenly Father, how we do praise and
thank Thee that we can come together again
this afternoon.
We do worship Thee because Thou art doing
such a great work.
And Thou does call us to work together
with Thee.
And we do pray that Thou will clarify
for us any confusion or any misunderstanding that
we have.
We pray that Thou will bring us not
only to understand but also to really be
a functioning, living, participating fellow worker of Thine
and of Thine.
So we just commit this time into Thy
hands and pray for the spirit of wisdom
and understanding.
In the name of our Lord Jesus.
I think first of all I have to
clarify a
point.
Because what I mentioned yesterday about the work,
that is God's work, the work of God.
I do not have anything in mind as
to a recognized, organized sort of work.
What I mean is God has a work
to do.
And He is doing that.
And as He does that work, He does
call many to join in the work that
He is doing.
In other words, what I'm presenting is more
of a spiritual general picture.
I'm not thinking in terms of how do
you join the work or things like that.
So I think this is the point that
I like to clarify.
Because even if you are not formally joined
to a work, yet you still can be
in God's work.
It is not necessarily that you have to
join a work in order to be in
God's work.
Sometimes you may join a work and you
are not in God's work.
But you may not join a work and
yet you can really, spiritually, really be in
the work of God.
So I think this is a point I
would like to clarify before I go on.
Now there are a number of questions here.
Some questions I feel probably we should go
into it.
Other questions probably are not very much important
or much essential for our consideration.
So I will just go on and read
the questions and wait for your help to
answer these questions.
Especially two brothers here.
And we'll see as we go on.
You quoted the scriptures that apostles, prophets, evangelists,
pastors and teachers are workers.
Do these ones develop their gift in the
church?
Or are there times that these ones that
show promise are trained and developed in the
work by a proven worker?
Let me read again.
I think it's a good question.
You quoted the scriptures that apostles, prophets, evangelists,
pastors and teachers are workers.
Do these ones develop their gift in the
church?
Or are there times that these ones that
show promise are trained and developed in the
work by a proven worker?
Dana, what do you think about it?
Communicate.
I think that if the church were in
its normal state, that a brother or sister
whom God was raising up to be a
worker would be trained in the church and
develop their gift in the church, because don't
forget that workers are part of the church
too.
And then these workers in the church perhaps
would notice the gift and the talent of
these young men and women and give them
some training in the context of the church.
I think perhaps many of us see that
as the normal that God is trying to
recover in this day, which is why we
emphasize when we see a brother or sister
that obviously has some gifting from God, if
they can really learn church life, then they
will be saved.
Now the question as to whether a worker
should take them as an alternative really implies
that the church isn't being the church.
If a worker has to take somebody out
over here to train them, then it's saying
that the church is such that they can't
be trained there.
And I would hope that contradiction in our
context wouldn't be the case.
Now, of course, a lot of what is
considered training today is when a young man
or woman goes off to a school to
learn.
And I have a few hesitations with that,
but I think Stephen really ought to answer
this question a little bit more.
My hesitations are really twofold.
Number one, that you cannot help at a
school.
And I say this from personal experience, having
been to a seminary for four years, that
you develop a mentality of a minister and
one who leads.
And it's awfully hard once that happens.
And then when you graduate, you get a
position.
It's awfully hard not to turn that down
and say, no, I'm just going back to
these people and I'm going to be an
electrician.
When instead you could be a full-time
worker and a head of a church.
Very hard to overcome that sense.
And, of course, also I think sometimes in
certain schools there's problems with how they train
you, both in theology and in practical work.
Often you don't get the discipline of your
personal life that you need, and it produces
many workers who lack on the life side.
Good.
Thank you.
Now, we do believe that God gave to
the church some apostles, some prophets, some evangelists,
some pastors and teachers.
And we call them workers.
Because these four classes of people represent, really,
God's work.
As I said yesterday, that there are many
others that are involved in the work, but
these four classes of people seem to represent
the work.
Another thing I think we can emphasize, and
that is, personally I feel these people are
called by the Lord in a special way.
In other words, generally everyone is called to
the work.
You know, like a parable in Matthew chapter
20, you find a householder went out and
he just, whoever he saw, standing there idle
and asked them to come in and work
in the vineyard.
So in that sense, you know, that call
is a general call.
But I personally believe that people of these
four classes of people, they not only receive
the general call, but they really receive some
specific calling from God.
In other words, God does, in a specific
way, call them into the ministry.
So Paul mentioned in 2 Corinthians chapter 4,
said, having this ministry.
In other words, there is a ministry called
this ministry.
It is the ministry of the Word.
And those who are engaged in this ministry,
they have received special call from God.
God has specially set them apart, appointing them
by divine appointment into the work that God
has called them to.
Now, not every worker or fellow worker in
God's work are among these four classes of
people.
So I think this is something we need
to be clear about.
You know, many will be involved in God's
work.
But there will be four classes of people
as if they represent God's work.
Therefore, they need special calling from God to
be such.
Now, that is one point.
Now, the second point, I will just re
-emphasize it.
Our brother has already mentioned.
The training or the developing of a worker.
Now, it is true.
When our Lord Jesus was on earth, out
of all the disciples, he chose twelve to
be with him.
In other words, he put them under his
personal training.
But at that time, of course, you don't
have the church yet.
So the Lord himself personally trained these people.
But when you go into the New Testament,
in the Book of Acts, aside from the
original twelve apostles, of course, Paul stands out.
And here you will find that Paul received
a special calling from God.
God appointed him to be a witness and
a servant.
So he received a special calling from God.
And probably we will think that Paul had
never received any training in the church.
He seems to be very original in a
sense.
But we have to remember the background.
Number one, you will find that Paul, being
Saul the Pharisee, he had a very good
background of the Old Testament.
He was not a person that knew nothing
about the Word of God.
He was familiar with the Word of God.
But unfortunately, he was blind.
You know, he read the Word of God
with a colored spectacle.
That is with the tradition of the fathers.
He misread the Bible.
But he did have a good background of
the Bible.
Now, number one.
Number two, you will find that after the
Lord had saved him and called him, he
went to Arabia for three years.
And there he was, I believe, he was
re-studying the Word under new light.
He had met Christ.
So therefore, he is studying the Bible in
terms of...
So he learned directly from the Lord.
But even so, you will find that he
went to Jerusalem.
He got too hot.
He had to be sent away.
And there he was in Cilicia, in Tarsus.
We do not know how long.
It must be probably a few years there.
Until Barnabas went out to find him.
And brought him to Antioch.
And for a whole year, he served the
Lord with Barnabas.
And then in Acts chapter 13, you will
find, God raised up in the church in
Antioch, five prophets and teachers.
But among the five, Saul was listed last.
Now, you know, the order in the Bible
is very meaningful.
In other words, when the Spirit of God
put names down or put the order down,
it is not just Achilles listed.
He listed very carefully.
So here you will find even Paul, with
such a background.
In a sense, he was learning to serve
with Barnabas.
Not under Barnabas, but with Barnabas.
And with the others, but he was the
last one.
And it was then that God separated Barnabas
and Saul.
For the apostolic work.
And in the beginning, you will find it
was Barnabas and Saul.
Until, later on, the Holy Spirit changed the
order and said Paul and Barnabas.
So, even with such a great apostle like
Paul, you will find that he still received
some help and some training in the church.
Ministering together with the other whom God has
raised up.
He was not a person that is just
so original that he has nothing to do
with training or with other people.
Now, of course, Paul is an exception.
I do believe that the rule in the
New Testament of how a worker is being
raised up, developed, I think the clearest case
is Timothy.
Is Timothy.
Here was a young man, saved, when Paul
visited Derbe and Iconia, Lystra, these places.
And after this young man was saved, he
was in the church there.
And while he was meeting with the brothers
and sisters in the church there, in Derbe
and Iconia, gradually, it was manifested
that he had a gift.
Maybe of teaching, even though he was a
young man.
But again you find that he knew the
sacred letter from his childhood.
There was a background there.
And because of that background, and added to
it his diligence, you find gradually he was
functioning as a member of the body of
Christ.
You know, that's the wonderful thing.
The church is the training ground for God's
workers.
In the church, every member of the body
functions.
You know, today the problem is, either you
have no opportunity to function in the church
where you are.
You are not given the opportunity.
Because there is someone there who is in
charge and who takes care of all the
spiritual things.
It's all centered upon one person.
So, the rest doesn't have a chance to
function and to develop the gift or gifts
that God has given them.
Now that is one extreme.
The other extreme is, people do not function.
They just are passive.
Maybe the opportunity is there, but they don't
seize upon the opportunity.
They don't function.
And if they do not function, they will
never be manifested by the Holy Spirit.
A person that is to be manifested by
the Holy Spirit, you have to function first.
So I do believe that when God's people
are together in the church, local, this is
the place that all the members of the
body function.
And as they function, gradually, those whom God
would raise up as future workers will be
manifested.
Locally first.
Locally, maybe Timothy, as he was functioning, you
know, maybe as he was exhorting or as
he was encouraging, as he was expanding the
word of God, the brothers and sisters are
edified, are really helped, you know.
And probably some older people will encourage this
young man to do more of it.
And as gradually it developed, then after a
while you find Paul came to Derbe and
Iconia.
And this young man was recommended by the
church there.
That here was a young man who seemed
to have a potential.
And he has already proven himself in the
local church.
And Paul took him with him and helped
to develop whatever God has already vested in
this young man.
So I do believe that, number one, a
worker, and by the worker there probably more
in the sense of these first classes of
people.
I do believe a worker is developed in
this way.
First, in the assembly, in the local church.
You know, the problem today is, I do
not know how you feel, but that's how
I feel.
I feel the problem today is, usually, you
know, in a revival meeting or in a
conference of some sort, you know, when people
are fired up, then there will be a
call for workers.
Saying that, well, who wants to present, offer
himself to serve God.
You know, and in that sense it means,
not in the sense of generally that we
offer ourselves to God, but more in the
sense of being one of the four classes
of people.
You know, that's the mentality today.
So people heard the call, they responded, and
they felt that now they are called.
And they had already responded.
So what should they do?
And the quickest way, of course, is go
to a seminary or Bible school to be
prepared.
You know, that I think is the traditional
mentality.
And in a sense, I feel that it
is not really in accordance with the word
of God.
To me, I feel, if we can function
in the church, don't bother about calling, this
matter of calling.
You know, just be simple and serve in
the local assembly, you know.
And according to the measure that God has
given to you, don't strike very high at
the very beginning.
I am called to be a pastor, therefore
I have to be a pastor, and nothing
else.
You know, I am called to be an
evangelist, so unless I stand up and three
thousand get saved, I'll never open my mouth.
You know, don't strike too high.
Be very practical.
You know, don't bother about calling.
Don't bother about calling.
You know, that will come, if.
Just begin as a simple brother, as a
simple sister.
And just be faithful in the little thing
that God has given you.
And as you are faithfully serving, then you'll
find gradually the gift, or gifts that God
has given you begin to develop.
And as they begin to develop, a ministry
begin to be developing.
And probably, to a certain point, you will
hear the calling.
And God said, now, it is time for
you to be more involved.
You know, and you have the confirmation from
the church.
The whole church will respond and say, God
has really raised this man up.
You know, I feel that is much safer
than to have a kind of a calling
and try to fit in with that calling.
You know, it's a little bit artificial.
Why not just start until you come to
a point.
And when the calling comes, there's already manifestation
and also confirmation from the church.
And I think, probably, with Timothy, that is
the case.
And if it is the will of God
that you should enter into a more wider
field of service, I think it would be
very good if some more experienced worker, you
will work together with some more experienced worker
instead of launching out all by yourself.
I think that would be a good thing
because there are many lessons that we need
to learn.
So, I would say, what is mentioned here
would be very good.
Of course, sometimes, some people say, well, where
can I find an older worker that I
can work together with?
Now, this is something that God has to
sovereignly arrange it.
You cannot do it in a mechanical way
or human arrangement.
You know, put yourself under certain one.
But God has to form that kind of
relationship.
So, that's what it is.
The second question, I think, should be reserved
to your brother Ernie, at his session.
Because it has to do with elders.
You go ahead.
I will leave you to it.
That way, when they ask me the question,
I'll know what to say.
Okay, I'll call upon you then.
Elders seem to need gifting to accompany the
office they hold, such as prophetic ministry, a
pastor's heart, evangelistic burden, aid to teach, in
order for a church to be strong.
How do we know if a person should
be an elder or a worker if they
show such gifting?
Now, go ahead and answer.
You answer.
First of all, the qualification for an elder
is more spirituality than ability.
I think this is very clear in 1
Timothy and in Titus.
As you read through that list, and again,
it is not an exhaustive list.
It is just an illustrative list.
And as you go through the list in
Timothy, chapter 3, and also in Titus, you
will find that of all the things that
are listed, actually they are more related to
spirituality than to ability.
So to be an elder, the first thing
is character.
The first thing is spirituality.
But it doesn't mean that someone that has
absolutely no ability can be an elder.
Because in the list, at least you can
find two items that seem to have something
to do with ability.
One is a person has to know how
to rule his own house before he can
rule the house of God.
Now that's ability.
And another thing is ability to teach.
But the ability to teach, to me I
feel, doesn't mean that he is a teacher,
necessarily.
Because in other places in the scripture you'll
find some elders have teaching ministry.
And if an elder has a teaching ministry,
he should receive double honor.
So it proves that not all elders have
teaching ministry.
But they have the tendency or the ability
to counsel in that sense.
Not in the sense of teaching publicly.
But more in the sense of, because of
their knowledge of the Lord, of their understanding
of their spiritual stature, some discernment, and because
of that they are able to teach people.
Whether it is in public or maybe it
is in private.
Counseling and things like that.
So these are related to ability.
Now whether an elder must have prophetic ministry
or not, I don't know.
It can be, but it is not necessary.
An elder can be a prophet.
It is possible.
But it is not necessary.
But a pastor's heart an elder must have.
Because if you read 1 Peter chapter 5,
you will find that elders are also shepherds.
They shepherd the flock.
Now pastor in the Greek original simply means
shepherd.
Pastor and shepherd are one word.
Pastoring is really shepherding.
So an elder has to have a shepherd's
heart.
Now whether he is functioning as a shepherd.
But here I think you have to distinguish.
In Ephesians chapter 4, really you find that
these four classes of people are related to
work.
But in 1 Peter 5, when it mentions
that the elders shepherd the flock.
It is more related to the church.
So actually you have two kinds of shepherds.
And I think that is all you can
find in the New Testament.
One kind of shepherd is one of the
four classes of workers.
They are shepherds and teachers.
The other kind involved in the work and
the other kind of shepherd are the elders
in the local church.
They are shepherds.
Now today I am afraid we use the
word shepherd in a very very general way.
And to me I feel probably we have
extended too far.
You know we hear that anybody shepherding a
few people and things like that.
Really you cannot use that word because strictly
speaking in the New Testament.
You will find the word shepherd is only
used either for the work, one class in
the work.
Or it refers to the elders of the
church.
So surely he has to have a shepherd's
heart.
Now an elder can be an evangelist.
He can be.
There is no reason why he cannot be
an evangelist.
But not necessarily.
Now for a church to be strong, how
do we know if a person should be
an elder or a worker?
Now the only difference between an elder and
a worker is here.
An elder is for the local assembly.
In other words, he will stay there.
He will be with the people all the
time.
It doesn't mean that he cannot go out
sometimes.
But you find that his responsibility actually is
local.
Now a worker, so called, that is he
is involved in a work.
And as I mentioned yesterday, a work is
regional.
Its scope is larger than a local assembly.
So whether that person should be an elder
or a worker, it really depends on how
the Lord will use him.
If the Lord is calling him and use
him locally, then he can be an elder
there.
Or if the Lord is calling him for
a wider field of work, more than just
one local assembly, then he can be a
worker.
So it depends on how the Lord will
use that kind of person.
I don't know if that's all right.
Ernie, will you please add something to it?
Our brother is not communicating.
And I think here is a question that
has something to do with the same, in
the same area.
How is it possible for a brother or
sister to join in the work without first
being a functional and living and contributing member
of a local assembly?
It is not possible.
You have to be a living, functioning, contributing
member of the local assembly before you can
really be involved in the work.
Isn't this the proving ground of submission and
service that must precede the work?
That's true.
The local church is the training ground.
Is the training ground.
Of course, when you really get into the
work, there are still much more to learn
yet.
But the basic things you have to learn
in the local assembly.
Now just use an illustration.
John Mark is an illustration.
It seems that John Mark hasn't learned in
the church in Jerusalem.
He was a person sheltered.
And because of this, when he was taken
into the work, he couldn't make it.
He couldn't make it.
So I think that's the good thing.
If a person will first be proven in
the local assembly.
He had to learn submission.
That's very true.
And you'll find that that's a problem with
John Mark.
In the matter of submission.
He could submit to Barnabas but not to
Paul.
So he had to go back.
And probably Peter did help him in that
area.
And later on, of course, Barnabas helped him.
So finally Paul said, John Mark is useful
in the ministry.
So I do think that is correct.
That is very important.
This question is, you stated that if a
worker has a job, his job is for
the work.
And if they have a family, their family
is for the work.
Would you elaborate on this?
Now again, I would say, there is a
difference here.
When you think of the work in general.
That is God's work.
You know, you may just stay in one
place.
You are a member of the local church.
But at the same time, you are serving
God in the work.
By that I mean, generally speaking.
You know, God is doing a work.
And what is his work?
He is building his church.
That is the work of God today.
And because you see the vision.
And because you really give yourself 100%
to it.
Therefore, even though you are a local brother
or a local sister.
And you are locally involved in the building
up of the church there.
At the same time, you may be considered
as participating in the work of God.
That is working with God.
So that is one way to look at
it.
Now, if this is the case.
Then if God, it is God's will that
you shall have a job.
First of all, you do not look at
the job as your real profession.
It is your application, not your vocation.
Your vocation is serving the Lord.
But in serving the Lord, it is the
will of God that you shall have a
job.
So that job is an application.
You use that job to support yourself, to
support your family, to help others.
And to enable you to serve God in
the way that He has ordained or He
has opened up for you.
So, in that sense, when you are doing
a job, you are not doing it, you
are doing it for the work.
Now, let me use an illustration probably.
For instance, like Aquila and Priscilla.
Now, Aquila and Priscilla, they are tank makers.
And you will find that they make tanks.
That is their job.
But, no doubt, you will find that Aquila
and Priscilla are very much involved in God's
work.
They do not make that job as the
most important thing of their life.
Do the work of God is their priority.
And because of this, sometimes you will find,
Priscilla and Aquila, they will move to another
place.
When they arrive another place, they still carry
on their job.
But the reason why they move is related
to the work of God.
So, their work, their job is for the
work.
Their job is not just for themselves.
Their job is for the work.
Or, make another, use another illustration.
Suppose you are a businessman.
And you are involved in business.
Now, it is the will of God that
you should be involved in business.
But, your business is for God's work.
In what sense?
Whatever God has given to you, the profit
that you receive from the business, you channel
it to the work of God.
That is a fellow workman of God's work.
So, you will find that the job is
for the work.
This is when we think of local situation.
Now, if you think of, you are involved
in a work that is like Paul, Timothy
and other people, you know, who are involved
in work in a specific way.
Now, if you are involved in the work
in a specific way, then, of course, like
Paul, you will find that sometimes when the
need is there, he works with his hands.
And other times, you will find that he
doesn't work at all.
In Philippi, you will find that he did
not work.
And, even when he was in Achaia, you
will find that the people in Philippi, they
are still sending gifts to him to support
him in the work.
But in Corinth, he worked with his own
hands.
In Ephesus, he worked with his own hands.
So, you will find that the work, the
job that he is doing is for the
work.
If it will help the work, he will
do it.
If it interferes with the work, then it
shouldn't be done, should not be done.
So, here you will find another instance.
You know, not in the local sense, but
more in a specific sense.
Side 2 of Responsibility in the Work by
Brother Stephen Kong is of such poor quality
that we are unable to amplify it to
the degree that it would be discernible and
understandable.
So, we are sorry to lose the answers
to the questions in the second portion of
that Thursday afternoon, 7-8-82.
The tape, cassette tape, you can just barely
hear it.
And, if you want to try to hear
the remainder of this question and answer period,
you might ask, order the tape and try
to hear it for yourself.
However, the current technology that we are using
is unable to reproduce it at an adequate
volume for online purposes.
We apologize and God bless and may the
Lord answer all your questions.
If you wish to order the tape, it's
SK4036.