A person is constantly beat up by King
James Only-ists because I use the NIV
Bible.
They tell me the NIV is not the
true word of God.
I need your encouragement as I'm getting weary.
I just would like to say this to
you.
There is a book out by the same
man, Greek scholar Gordon Fee.
He wrote a famous book that's used in
Dallas Theological Seminary and other places called How
to Read the Bible for All Its Worth.
Gordon Fee, How to Read the Bible for
All Its Worth.
Any of you ever hear of it, just
lift your hand if you've ever heard of
it.
Oh, most of you.
Well, his most recent book of that ilk,
written with a partner, is called How to
Choose a Bible Translation for All Its Worth.
It's only 190 pages long.
I think it's a masterpiece.
He doesn't recommend any one translation.
He doesn't bash any.
He tells you the strengths, weaknesses, and the
approaches, the approach to biblical translation because he's
a translator so that people say, no, I
just want a literal translation.
I want the New American Standard or the
King James because they're more literal.
There are no literal translations.
All translation involves interpretation and judgment calls.
For example, he points out that in the
New American Standard Bible, one Greek word, one
Greek word is translated by 17 different English
words.
Well, what does that Greek word mean?
Just make it the same every place.
No, the laws of translation are by context
and the way it's used, you know, the
translation changes.
Well, who has a right to say it?
Just make it literal.
Well, there's no such a thing.
All translation involves interpretation and making judgment calls.
But it gives you a great, if you
know that book and digest that book, nobody
will ever bother you again.
By the way, I was approached, maybe nobody,
hardly anyone bothers me about that except we
put out one person from the church.
It was a King James only person, a
very odd, I felt bad for him, but
he was causing too much trouble.
He came up to me 10, 12 years
ago and said, why are you cheating the
people by not preaching, giving them the true
word of God?
I said, what are you talking about?
He said, it's the King James or hit
the road or something like that.
A businessman looked intelligent and all of that.
So I said to him, look, go home
and show me one teaching that you can
make.
If there's a conspiracy to water down the
word of God with the NIV or whatever,
go home and find one doctrine that you
can teach from the King James that I
can't teach from the NIV.
Just go home and tell me.
Then I'm open that there's a conspiracy to
do away with the deity of Christ or
this or that or this.
And of course, manuscripts, older ones, newer ones,
how translation is done is covered in that
book I mentioned.
So what he did was, he never came
back to me with anything because there is
no teaching that you can't teach.
So, but he had a fighting spirit.
He had a party spirit.
You know, a party spirit is listed in
the Bible with adultery and murder and a
lot of other terrible things.
And a party spirit doesn't mean you wear
a party hat and blow one of those
things out.
It means a sectarian party spirit.
It means a Baptist spirit where the only
thing you think is worthwhile is Baptist, that
you have a little bit more than everyone
else.
Or assembly of God or charismatic.
They're the only ones who are in the
flow.
Nobody else is doing anything for God.
Or Calvinist or Arminian or it can be
local church, a horrible, abominable Brooklyn Tabernacle cult
spirit that the only church that really is
doing it right is the Brooklyn.
These party spirit, this little grouping spirit divides
the body of Christ in a horrible way.
He had a King James cult spirit on
him or something.
But he kept coming to the church.
So I kept seeing him and his worship.
And then he wrote me a letter, the
meetings mean so much and all of that.
So I saw him one day and I
said, listen, my friend, I see you in
church all the time, but I remember what
you said to me.
And you wrote one letter about how all
translations are perversion and all of that, as
if the apostle Paul was reading from the
King James.
So I said, look, I'm happy if the
meetings mean something to you.
Fine.
But why don't you go somewhere where they
preach from the King James?
Wouldn't that make more sense if the King
James is where it's at?
Go to a church with the King James.
Don't come here.
You know, never hold on to anyone in
your church for their tithes or their attendance
who's going to cause a problem.
All in favor say aye, because they will
bite you.
They will bite you.
And that shows no faith in God.
So he said, no, I just I meet
God every time I come here.
I said, even though the preaching is a
perversion, I said, OK, but listen, you can
stay.
But behave yourself, because if we find out
that you're causing trouble by talking to people
in the church, this nonsense, King James nonsense,
we will come after you.
OK, we will come after you.
Because anyone who causes division, we don't fool
around.
Mark those that cause division among them.
Warn them once, twice, then have nothing to
do with them.
That's the Bible, right?
Don't you know that two years went by
and the guy became friends with my mother?
Not friends like that.
My mother's 40 years older than him, 30
years older.
But he became a friend of my mother
and drove her up to see a friend
of mine, the son of Sam, serial killer
David Berkowitz, who's a very godly Christian, wonderful
servant of the Lord in prison, took her
up there, had pictures with my mother and
all that and got close to her.
And he kind of like admired me.
It was a love hate kind of thing.
Well, don't you know that I find out
someone comes to me and says, You know,
I've been invited by this man to a
special house meeting.
House meetings are very dangerous when they're not
authorized by the church.
He has a house meeting because he's going
to tell us the inside scoop about, you
know, translations and all that.
I couldn't believe it.
Then another person came and warned me and
said, I went to this meeting.
You would not be happy with it.
He was really pounding people who were not
present.
OK, so I then went to him.
We called him in and I had a
pastor do that who had warned him.
Don't don't talk that that smack anymore here.
So he he.
So then it came to me, says I
couldn't.
I have to stand for the truth.
I said, fine, stand for the truth, but
don't stand for it here.
Stand for it wherever you want to go.
But don't don't come in and cause division.
That's like those people.
The Bible says they creep in unawares.
Right.
They don't make their own converts.
Most of these troublemakers, these hypo hyper Calvinists
and all these people causing division and all
that.
They never make their own converts.
They couldn't win a soul.
Most of them, if their life depended on
it, they go where their Christians already are
there and they proselytize.
I learned that a long time ago.
I tell people sometimes, if you know so
much, start your own church.
Show me how it's done.
I'll learn from you.
Not one has ever taken me up on
that.
Not one.
So, but that book will help you.
Sorry to go off on that tangent here.
I'm venting a little bit.
I need therapy.
I haven't gotten over that one yet.
So, no, but we try to handle things.
Carol just asked, what was it a year
ago, Carol?
Carol asked somebody out of the choir.
Why?
Talking.
Do they sing good?
Maybe.
I don't know.
She can judge that.
If you're talking, cause division, you can't stay
there.
You can't stay in the choir.
Because Carol prays and asks God to bless
that ministry, which he has greatly blessed.
So what are you going to do?
While you're singing, you're saying, come Holy Spirit,
I need thee.
And because of the divisive spirit, you're saying,
get out, Holy Spirit.
We don't want you.
So what are you going to do?
That's why a lot of churches are on
this.
You know what you work out on?
It's called the, what kind of mill?
A treadmill.
Are you moving?
Yes.
Are you going anywhere?
No.
That's why a lot of churches are because
of division and talking and putting up with
nonsense.
They're praying, preaching, singing, but they're not going
to go much anywhere because Jesus laid down
as the first spiritual principle.
Please remember this.
I wanted to talk about this today, but
it didn't work out that way.
But just you think, ponder it.
Any house divided against itself cannot stand.
No kingdom divided itself.
No choir, no church.
No, but I love Jesus.
You still won't stand because anything divided against
itself is coming down.
First, it's weakened.
It's dissipated.
Do you think crack cocaine or an alcohol
or stealing money or meeting someone in a
motel?
Do you think that's what holds most churches
back?
Of course not.
They slay their thousands.
What slayed their tens of thousands is this
division.
King James bustling among the people and all
of that.
So we try to be vigilant.
Look, we're not running a Paris Island Marine
Corps here.
You got to be gentle and kind to
people.
But once you warn them, as the Bible
says, mark those that cause division.
You know, somebody here needs to hear this
because you need to get the courage from
God to face what you're facing.
It is what it is.
Mark those that cause division among you.
Warn them once.
Warn them a second time.
After that, have nothing to do with them.
So we told this guy, you're not welcome
here because you cause division.
You're not building up people.
You're pulling the thing apart.
That's not right.
If you feel that strongly, didn't I tell
you four years before?
If you felt that strongly, find a church
that would make you happy.
Tell anyone who's criticizing, criticizing.
Hey, praise God.
You don't like it here.
No, your choir is too loud.
And they're always lifting their hands.
That's not something I think that's important.
Then fine.
Go to a church where they don't lift
their hands.
You can find them.
Find a quiet church.
If that's your thing, go wherever you feel
like.
But don't go anywhere where you're going to
criticize.
And then leave.
And you're always venting.
And you're always feeling bad.
Listen, don't you think we have our own
personality here?
You were here Sunday.
Don't we have our own personality here?
Did anyone say to you?
Have we ever said to you during this
conference?
This is the way to do church.
Go home and copy us.
Did you hear that ever said here?
I don't care what you do where you're
there.
I just want God to bless you in
your church.
Whatever your personality is, go for it.
But remember the common goal.
Soul saved.
People disciple.
The love of God.
Spirit of worship and praise.
People loving Jesus.
How you get there is your business.
God has to lead you.
But divisive spirit, you have to deal with
that.
Or trouble.
Just divisive people.
By the way, somebody also had a question
that I'd like to handle.
What do I do?
It's a lay person here or someone in
leadership.
I go to my church and I'm so
discouraged.
And I go and I go and I
pray and nothing's happening.
And I leave the church every week discouraged.
I just want to tell you my feelings
on that.
This is not thus sayeth the Lord.
I don't have a verse for you.
Although I would have one verse that I
would apply.
Because I try to think biblically.
The Bible says, let everything be done to
edification.
If you're not being edified, maybe God is
sending you a letter.
Leave.
But I cannot see any place in the
Bible where you should go to church.
If you have any other choice to go
someplace else.
Well, no, that's a church I grew up
in with my family and my friends go
there and all that.
Look, you do what you feel.
But what I tell people, go to the
pastor and leadership.
This is what I think is being done
unbiblically.
If there is anything unbiblically.
Maybe it's just a cold spirit like Pastor
Claude.
Wasn't he the bomb today?
But Pastor Claude was so good.
Let's thank God again for Pastor Claude.
So good.
Like that church that he was in that
was like a refrigerator.
Some churches are like that.
Okay.
Or some churches are not, don't welcome visitors.
Especially if they're people who are other.
I was talking with a precious couple during
lunch today.
And a lot of people who pound the
Bible.
And are all fundamentalist when it comes to
scripture.
They have no love for a black person.
They have no love for Latino.
They have no love.
They don't want those people in their church.
And if the neighbor changes, they're moving.
They will move.
Talk about white flight in terms of housing.
Churches have white flight.
Old denominations.
They were like that during the civil war,
pro-slavery.
And although they say they're not that way.
Jesus said, you know a tree by its
fruit.
Don't go by what people say.
Go by how they act.
Okay.
My wife had a different background.
But my background was the church my mom
and dad dragged me to.
Was extreme holiness oriented, fundamentalist kind of Pentecostal
church.
Baptism in Jesus name or you weren't even
a Christian.
No makeup.
No cutting of hair.
No wearing of red shoes.
No, I'm telling you the truth.
That was considered worldly.
The men weren't allowed in certain parts of
that denomination.
Weren't allowed to wear wedding rings.
Now to us, if a guy doesn't wear
a wedding band here.
We figure he's cruising.
We want to talk to him and say.
How come you're married and you won't wear
a wedding band?
Right.
But it was a kind of reverse thing.
Now you see with all that fundamentalism and
all of that.
No, no, no.
The women would have hair down to their
bottom of their calves.
Never cut it once.
Black person come to their church.
Never.
So what are you going to do with
that theologically?
I'm stuck with this verse.
If anyone says he loves God and doesn't
love his brother.
He's a liar and the truth is not
in him.
You can have all the holiness standards and
doctrinal purity that you claim to have.
If you don't love people who Christ died
for.
Were we not talking about that today, brother?
How in the world Christ died for someone
you don't want him in your church.
Let me get this right.
Christ shed his blood for a human being
and you don't want him in your church.
But you want the blessing of the Holy
Spirit.
You have a problem.
I have a problem.
If that's in me.
Go to all the leadership conferences you can.
You can work up any kind of sound
you want in the worship.
God is a God who looks at the
heart.
Amen.
You mentioned prayer stations.
Yesterday and and in the.
About and the prayer band.
What about prayer walking?
Do you practice that also?
We don't do prayer walks here.
Main reason is anyone wants to do a
prayer walk.
Praise God.
Walk and pray.
But I don't find them in the Bible.
I don't see him in the New Testament.
I'm not a believer in prayer towers or
anything like that.
I don't believe we need to go in
the basement.
I don't believe we need to go up
high.
I don't believe in anything else.
But what I see in the New Testament,
when God's people pray, he's going to do
something.
Can we all put our hands together for
that?
He's going to do something.
You want to walk.
I saw a group 20 years ago in
the city from a para church ministry, and
the instruction was be given.
They were using our church, in fact.
And there are all these young kids from
different parts of the country.
Now, when you walk in Manhattan and you
pray every place you put your foot, just
remember now you possess that for God, because
Joshua, you know, and they quoted Joshua.
That's that's not rightly dividing the word of
God.
If it was that simple, Paul would walk
just all through Ephesus and claim the whole
thing.
Never would have been thrown in prison and
all of that.
The mysteries of prayer are only learned by
praying and you don't have to walk.
I took a long walk the other day
because I needed to pray.
And sometimes I get tired and sleepy if
I go in another position.
So I walk so you can walk and
pray.
But prayer walks as the answer, pulling down
strongholds of certain territories and all of that.
I do not see that in the New
Testament as a practice.
I don't see it in Jesus's life.
I don't doesn't matter if it's an evangelical
or charismatic teaching.
I want to judge everything by the word
of God.
But if someone says, no, we did prayer
walks and God blessed it.
Praise God.
Keep walking.
Keep praying.
Do whatever whatever works for you.
Right.
But never argue for something that's not found
in Scripture.
All in favor say aye.
Will there be a conference leaders conference in
2011?
Yes.
God willing.
And I've asked Ravi Zacharias to be here,
along with Francis Chan, who's a friend who's
preached here.
And I want to get some other speakers
like that ilk who will really bless us.
And as soon as we know the dates,
we've actually pulled some dates together.
We'll get that word out to you.
We'll let you know first.
Can we get the words to the praise
songs?
If yes, how?
I don't know what song you were thinking
about.
But again, unless we've recorded a song, I
would look at what song has praise and
worship on it.
Definitely.
I'll say yes has some songs like I
adore you.
But this last album has some up praise
songs and I surrender on it.
But otherwise, we don't have sheet music for
any of the songs were.
Unless Carol records it, there's no book made.
So we really can't help you.
I want to study the Bible systematically.
Can you give me some tips also to
study it so I can get a systematic
approach to the Bible?
That book that I mentioned on Sunday to
the congregation, did you see me hold up
that workbook there?
That's excellent.
There is a book, a bigger book, a
more challenging book called How to Explore the
Book by J.
Sidlow Baxter.
It's older, but it's very good.
There's some excellent study Bibles.
The best study Bible I've gotten hold of,
this is a TNIV study Bible that Zondervan
gave me as a present.
They're coming out, by the way, with a
new NIV.
The new NIV 2011 is coming out, I
think they said in March.
But I read sometimes, especially in the Old
Testament, from the New Living Translation, and my
friend Warren Worsley has come out.
I'd agree with every approach he takes on
every note.
We're all bound by, or limited, or whatever,
by, all of us, by the tradition we
grow up in, and other people don't see
it that way.
But he has a Bible called the Transformation
Bible.
It's available in there.
That is the best study Bible I've ever
seen.
Because even this Bible here, sometimes it gives
me too much information on the bottom, and
it distracts me from the text.
What they have done with my friend, Brother
Worsley, is they have put his nuggets from
his B-series and his commentaries.
Anyone ever read anything by Warren Worsley could
just hold up your hand.
Good, most everyone.
So they put those nuggets on the bottom,
and it just opens up certain verses, great
introductions to the book, so you know where
the books are.
My approach to that is this.
You have to find some instrument for yourself
or for someone else so that you know
the Bible systematically from Genesis to Revelation.
You know the history of the Bible, and
every book, you know where it fits in
the big picture.
That's what you need to know first.
And that workbook and some other things can
help you.
Of course, if you went to Bible school
or seminary, you got that, I'm sure.
Although, How to Read the Bible for All
Its Worth, that little book, and then How
to Read the Books of the Bible for
All Their Worth, another one by Gordon Fee.
They're excellent, foundational.
How to Approach Scripture.
Can you just apply an Old Testament verse
to the New Testament because it's in the
Bible?
Can you just do that to our situation
today?
You know, you feel a lot of the
false faith teachers and some of the extremes
in the charismatic movement, a lot of the
error there is formed.
They have a lot of truth there in
some of the things they say, but one
of the errors is taking Old Testament verses
said to Israel while they were in the
land and applying to us today, and forgetting
about the cross and the different covenant that
we live under.
You know, I'll make you the head and
not the tail.
Then what in the world was Paul getting
beat in prison if he's the head and
not the tail?
I know what it is to be thrown
in the open sea.
I know what it is to have a
lot.
I know what it is to have a
little.
No, you're not going to ever have a
little in the Old Testament.
The Old Testament covenant is if you obey
God and you're there, you always have victory
in every battle and all of that.
There's no getting thrown in prison and all
of that.
Now, David is a prophetic figure, and you
can see in his life the foreshadowing of
the new covenant where we have this mystical
thing called the cross.
If we suffer for him, we will also
reign with him, right?
So they're very good at that in that
book, How to Read the Bible for its
Worth, because they clearly show that if you're
just going to take any Old Testament verse
and apply them indiscriminately to the New Testament,
you know, I'll make your barns filled and
all of this, well, go to Biafra and
tell the Christians in Biafra that.
Go to Ethiopia where my grandson comes from
and just tell or how about all the
churches being burnt in Pakistan now?
So anyway, you have to my position is
this.
No verse from the Old Testament can be
preached on unless there's confirmation of its truth
in the New Testament.
So you can't tell people today, don't eat
pork and hold up the Bible and say,
put that rib down, you backslider, you can't
eat that because in the New Testament, Jesus
proclaimed that all food is clean.
Amen.
By the way, here's another thing.
I'm having a little dialogue or was with
a Seventh-day Adventist critiquer who is, you
know, at one of those things again.
I appreciate the church and the music, but
you're just falsely leading the people.
You know, there are Seventh-day Adventist people
fall into two groups.
Some are like born again, and they understand
that there's other people in the body of
Christ.
I've met them.
They're precious.
Whitley Phipps, by the way, is one like
that.
He's Seventh-day Adventist, worships on Saturday, won't
eat pork, but he obviously knows other people
are Christians.
But then the hardliners in there, we're all
going to hell.
We all have the mark of the beast
on us because we worship on Sunday.
Did you ever notice that in the New
Testament, under all the works of the flesh
that are listed in several places, Sabbath-breaking
is never mentioned?
New things are brought in like party spirit,
right?
And stuff like that, not mentioned so much
in the Old Testament.
So you have to understand the covenant.
You have to understand the Bible.
Then you start building.
And I started building a lot of years
ago by reading commentaries or books by spiritual
masters on the Holy Spirit, A.B. Simpson,
the founder of the Missionary Alliance.
Most of his books are out of print.
If you can get anything by A.B.
Simpson, just read it and be blessed.
Just read it and be blessed.
Revival literature has been a blessing to me,
commentaries on the book of the Bible so
I can dig deeper and understand the Word
of God better.
But to all the pastors and people who
want to teach or preach the Word of
God, never stop studying.
The day that you think you know the
Bible, you're doomed.
How many are just still learning it today,
like me?
Come on, wave your hand at me.
Just learning it now.
I mean, it has no bottom to it.
It has such depth.
We're all just learning it.
So keep studying and have someone speak in
your life.
One good thing about books is tapes.
Some people are CD listeners, tape listeners, download
sermons.
I'm not that kind of person so much,
although I do listen and enjoy things.
And I need to go to more conferences
and hear people speak into my life.
But I have a lot of reading that
I do where sermons are being preached, and
I sit there as if I'm in the
church, and now someone's ministering to me.
And I say, God, talk to me today.
And those people I'll meet in heaven one
day, most of them are dead.
But boy, they have blessed me so much
and spoken into my life.
Because when you're giving out, for six years
I did four services every Sunday.
Six years, four services every Sunday.
Nine, 12, three, and six.
Two hours long at least, each service.
And they would just put me in a
body bag at the end of the day
and send me, ship me home somewhere.
And now these three services, and then going
out and being here, there, and everywhere.
So the question is, if you're always giving
out, what a joy to sit and hear
Pastor Claude.
Oh, my goodness.
What a joy to hear Franklin yesterday.
You know, and so all I can recommend
is find your way of learning the Bible.
But this is what people on Fulton Street
and Smith Street are longing for right now.
Someone who will love them, who's full of
the word of God, right?
And is open to the Holy Spirit.
That's all people are looking for.
Do you think anyone's out there going, if
only someone would come with a PhD.
God, send me someone with a PhD.
Or at least an MDiv, because I don't
want to just talk to anybody.
You think anyone's struggling with crack cocaine?
You think anyone's out there thinking that?
No.
All you have to do is love them
with the love of God, have a working
knowledge of the Bible, and have faith to
follow the Holy Spirit.
What do you think they need where Elsie
is in Haiti?
You think any of those kids are praying,
oh God, send me somebody with a PhD?
Just love, a working knowledge of the Bible.
Do you ever think that that's why God
chose fishermen instead of rabbis to be his
12 followers?
Why would he chose fishermen and tax collectors,
people who were not that literate in scripture?
Because they would have to depend on the
Holy Spirit.
Which brings me to the final question, which
we'll end up with.
How do you handle, by the way, disciple
ministries?
How long do we study before they become
a member?
How long is that class?
Somebody help me.
Seven weeks of classes you take before you
become a member.
So we, in an interview, to find out
where they're coming from, what they know, or
have been mistaught or whatever.
And then we have four times a year
a ministry preparation class, three consecutive nights of
teaching, six, seven, eight hours.
On this last one was a class on
Mormonism, a apologetic course on Genesis, and one
on intimacy with God, knowing God better.
And we don't have, then there's Be Transformed
that people take.
That's kind of done under the radar and
just blessing people left and right.
And we have a class on Friday nights
for, help me, for those who have been
drugs, celebrate recovery.
We have a chapter of that.
And a lot of these things only work
as well as the people who are leading
them.
There are no secrets.
There's no teaching that if you do it,
it just solves everything.
It's God doesn't use systems, he uses people.
My pastor's a good man, he's not feeding
the people.
I've prayed, but nothing's changed.
What should I do?
And then it says, assistant pastor, no name.
Well, now that's a hard one.
Boy, you gotta really pray.
You gotta ask God what you should do.
Obviously, talk to the pastor.
If I was an assistant pastor and I
felt that, go to the pastor gently, lovingly.
This is what I think God wants us
to change.
You might win him.
God could use you or he might turn
on you.
And if he turned on you, I see
the bind there is if that's your salary,
then that's problematic.
But you gotta follow your heart to wherever
God wants you to go.
You gotta follow your heart.
Otherwise, you compromise, you get cynical.
The main question that people asked here, which
we'll cover this all just in 10 minutes,
so that you can be ready for the
prayer meeting is, what are your tips for
corporate prayer?
We want more prayer in our church.
We're no model of anything.
You'll be in a prayer meeting tonight and
we'll call on God and we'll do our
best.
But I think we have a lot of
room for improvement.
I don't think we're praying.
I'm praying and all of us are praying
the way maybe we need to, to get
secure more of God's blessing.
But let's just talk about corporate prayer.
The church was born in a corporate prayer
meeting.
Is that agreed upon?
Say amen.
Acts chapter 2, no teaching, no worship, no
instruments.
They might have been singing, but the place
where they were praying was shaken and the
church was born.
When the first persecution came on the church
with Peter and John being arrested in Acts
4, Acts 3 and 4, they immediately went
back to a prayer meeting where they all
lifted their voices out loud, like our brother
encouraged us, as I have since we've begun.
They all lifted their voices together in Acts
4 and they all prayed that God would
thwart this persecution.
They didn't ask God to stop the persecution.
They just said, God, give us the boldness
that we won't, as Franklin Graham said, back
up.
Jesus cleansed the temple and said it had
become polluted and prostituted because he said, my
house shall be called a house of what?
Prayer.
Okay.
I got a letter from a Baptist pastor
email years ago who had his church split
because he tried to start a prayer meeting.
He read my book, Fresh Wind, Fresh Fire,
was convicted that his church was prayerless and
went to the board of deacons and said,
we're going to start a prayer meeting.
They called it innovating and not being loyal
to the tradition of whatever his group was.
And it split the church and 40%
walked out because he was having a prayer
meeting.
Maybe Warren Wiersbe is right.
Maybe half the people in our churches are
in a lot of churches are not born
again.
Because if you're born again, you know, I
was holding Levi before.
Levi is alive.
He's a baby.
He has instincts.
He wants to eat.
He wants to move.
He breathes.
Why?
Because he's alive.
There's vital signs and instincts you have if
you're alive.
If you're not alive, those things are not
present in you.
It's always seemed strange to me.
Again, I don't want to be legalistic about
the whole thing.
But someone stopped me the other day and
said, you know, your meetings go two hours
long.
And by the end, the choir sings this,
that.
And I used to go to a church
an hour and 10 minutes or whatever an
hour.
Now, there are other people who come and
visit us and say to us, I would
go to your church.
But boy, where I came from, we had
church, brother.
Three hours and a half, four hours.
We would Jericho march around the church and
whatever.
So your church is too dead.
Well, everyone has to find out where they're
comfortable.
Everyone has to find.
No, that's what the person said.
And that's their view.
They have a right to their view.
But it is strange to me this, that
someone has trouble with a two-hour meeting.
When they rent their movies or they watch
an NFL game, do they usually last less
than two hours?
Isn't that strange?
That's an instinct to me that I've been
puzzled by.
Right?
If we're interested in something, whether it's a
movie or a hobby or sports or whatever,
the time is not a factor.
But then when it would come to things
of God, time becomes a factor.
And yet we're going to be in heaven
one day with nothing but Jesus and his
presence.
So that does some soul searching for pastors
who face that.
Have I brought my people into religion or
into a relationship with Jesus Christ?
Do they have fellowship with the Lord and
do they know the beauty?
I mean, Pastor Claude spoke for a good
length and then we prayed for a long
time after that.
I wasn't tired.
Were you?
Were you bored?
Anyone bored here by anything that happened this
morning?
No.
Why?
Because we have an instinct.
We love God.
We want to be in his presence.
So a couple things here.
Let me just say the practical things on
the top and then just one foundational thing,
which I don't want to be controversial, but
I feel I should say this.
First of all, don't copy the prayer meeting
you see tonight, because this is after a
lot of years of meeting on Tuesday night.
It wasn't always like that.
I think the prayer meetings are better now
than ever before.
Carol had a visitation of the Holy Spirit
in the choir practice last Wednesday that I
learned of from several people, where God blessed.
But you have to realize God always meets
us where we are, and all he gives
us is the next step.
Change does not come overnight.
No acorn becomes an oak tree in the
space of a year or a half a
year.
There's growth in all of us.
By the way, you don't learn to preach
like Pastor Claude does overnight.
It takes time.
You do it.
You make mistakes.
You keep seeking God, okay?
So wherever you are, that's a question, right?
Where are you?
Where are you with your church in England?
Where are you in your next church?
Where are you in your church?
What's the spiritual temperature as God sees it?
It would seem to me in South Carolina,
you got to seek the Lord and say,
God, how do you see the church?
Not how my denomination sees it.
Not how my peers see it.
That can all be deceptive and flattery.
Compared to the New Testament, which is our
goal, how is my church doing?
How is my church doing?
Where's our strengths?
Where's our weakness?
Where has God helped us?
Where are we not doing so good?
All the letters in Revelation that Jesus wrote.
I know your work.
I know your labor.
I know this.
All the good things.
But I have this against you.
You lost your first love.
That's Ephesus.
And then on and on and on.
One church, no commendation.
Laodicea.
You have a name.
To one church, you have a name that
you live, but you're really dead.
You wouldn't know that you were dead because
you have a name that you live.
But I'm telling you, Jesus, that you're dead.
Okay?
So you got to find out where you
are.
Maybe you're in the first grade.
Maybe you're in the fourth grade.
Maybe I'm in the seventh grade.
Well, then how do I get to the
eighth grade?
I just want to go grace upon grace.
Didn't God promise to move us from glory
to what?
To glory?
Glory.
So more glory.
And it never stops.
You never come to a moment where you
go, well, praise God.
We got this thing figured out.
This is it.
No, it's always flawed.
We're all flawed.
And it's always the human element mixed in.
And we want it to be pure and
more of God.
So don't go home and start a prayer
meeting unless God leads you.
Because I've seen some pastors hurt by going
home and trying to start a prayer meeting.
And their church was of a spiritual condition
where seven people showed up.
And the next week, four.
And the next week, two.
And there was no spirit of prayer.
And now the pastor feels doubly defeated because
he started a prayer meeting and made this
big thing about God answers prayer.
And, ah, what a rude awakening.
And now the church is buzzing about, did
you hear about the prayer meeting?
He stopped it after two months.
Just couldn't take it anymore.
Right?
So what I would suggest, you do as
the Lord leads you.
The Lord will lead you.
Amen?
The Lord will lead you.
He'll lead us.
Maybe you need to change your Sunday service.
Maybe you need to preach less and have
an altar service.
Someone wrote a question about that, about altar
service.
And leave a time to pray.
We only took five minutes to pray for
our brother.
But look at the testimony that has blessed
these people.
Okay?
So as you preach and you shorten your
sermons, you know, if our sermons were going
to do it by itself, we would have
done it a long time ago.
I would suggest we need something more than
our sermons.
All in favor, say aye.
So we preach.
What is an altar service?
Well, we don't do that in our denomination.
Well, I'm not so interested in your denomination
or my background.
I'd like to know what is an altar
service?
What do we do after Pastor Claude spoke?
We had a mini prayer meeting.
We had a prayer meeting.
Now, prayer meetings can be long.
Prayer meetings can be short.
The staff can gather to pray.
But we gathered to pray.
And maybe that will create an appetite in
the people that, wow, we just spent time
in God's presence and prayed.
Maybe they are so carnal in their thinking
that if you said, here's the night we're
going to pray, Wednesday night we're going to
pray, and that's it.
Spurgeon said it's the engine that drove his
great church.
Come on, everyone, we're going to pray.
Maybe they're going to think, pray?
Oh, no, I just want to go to
church on Sunday.
Then catch them on Sunday.
You got to catch the fish where they
are.
Or maybe do a series as God leads
you.
How about a month of Sundays on promises
for prayer?
Or eight weeks on great prayers of the
Bible.
Or four weeks on deliverances backed up against
the wall.
And talk about prayer.
Because what you teach is what you get.
If you teach dry unbelief, you will get
dry unbelief.
If you teach faith and prayer and you
lead the people, and then find some godly
people, spiritually minded people up in the front
at the end so that when the people
come forward, someone prays for them and guides
them and helps them.
I just say that as a suggestion to
you for some who want to see a
change but don't know what to do.
Because a lot of us, we know changes
are needed, but the question is how to
do it, Lord.
But here's the more controversial but more foundational
note.
And I say this with all love and
all respect.
But as traveling around the country and around
the world, I have definitely seen where these
verses are the ones that are most applicable
to this question.
The key to prayer in church is the
same key to love in our life or
hope or faith or anything else, which is
the power and presence of the Holy Spirit.
If we undervalue the Holy Spirit, they will
not be praying.
Oh, you can try to work it up.
You can try to get people because they
ought to.
But without the Holy Spirit, we're all too
carnal to pray.
You don't have to say amen.
I'll say amen for all of you.
Lord, forgive us, amen.
What's my scriptural proof for that?
Romans 8, Paul says, for we, first person
plural, he includes himself, for we don't know
how we ought to pray.
But who helps us?
The Holy Spirit.
All the stories of revival have been God
stirring up people to pray, and then revival
comes, and more prayer comes when the revival
comes because the Spirit pours out a spirit
of grace and supplication.
Wherever people are praying, really from their heart,
God is working.
Or God's going to even do more.
But to try to organize prayer, do it
by books and all of that, impossible.
Impossible.
Books can challenge you.
Books can inspire you.
You learn interesting principles.
But the Holy Spirit is the spirit of
prayer.
He's the one who creates faith.
He's the one who gives you utterance.
He's the one who gives you liberty.
Instead of praying from your head, you start
praying from your heart.
That only the Holy Spirit can do that.
Otherwise, we're locked in.
We're self-conscious.
The Holy Spirit is the key to everything
because the only representative God has on planet
Earth is the Holy Spirit.
Jesus is seated at the right hand of
the Father.
He's not here on Earth except by the
Holy Spirit.
Where he says, where two or three are
gathered, I'll be there, he's not there himself.
In the mystery of the Trinity, it's the
Holy Spirit who's called the Spirit of Christ.
Jesus is at the right hand of the
Father.
And when he comes, he comes.
And we're going to end up this whole
thing called planet Earth.
But right now, God's only representative is the
Holy Spirit.
And then you read books on preaching or
you hear ministers preaching the word of God.
I stand on the word.
I'm not one of these modernists.
I stand on the word of God.
And there's no mention of the Holy Spirit.
I have a friend who went a year
and a half to a famous theological seminary,
evangelical theological seminary that you all would know
of.
And in a year and a half, he
heard two mentions of the Holy Spirit.
Two mentions inspires the scriptures and convicts the
world of sin.
End of story.
Forget it.
You read the book of Acts and tell
me if that's the place the Holy Spirit
had in the early church.
OK, so let's get down to where the
rubber meets the road.
Why are we like that?
Because denominational traditions have squeezed out the Holy
Spirit.
Then on top of that, weird things have
been done in the name of the Holy
Spirit.
And there's excesses always.
And the devil uses the excesses to get
people to be afraid of the Holy Spirit.
But can you tell me, please, who called
Elsie to go to Haiti?
That was the one country she said she
would never go back to.
Am I right, Haiti?
Am I right, Elsie?
Haiti, she would never go back.
So who made her go back?
Are you looking at me?
I never talked to her about Haiti in
my life.
Did we ever talk about it?
No.
That was the Holy Spirit that put it
on her heart.
Who do you think gives her the strength
to endure and the other missionaries?
Who do you think gives her the strength
to endure and go through all that?
The Holy Spirit.
I'm not there.
I'm here and having the need that I
have of the Holy Spirit.
Without, like Chadwick said, Christianity is hopeless without
the Holy Ghost.
You can have church.
You can have all this.
Why do you think people don't want to
be in church, but they'll watch a movie
for three hours?
Because they're not familiar with the communion of
the Holy Spirit.
They're not saying like the preacher said.
So that is true.
Who follows me this far?
Just lift your hand and say, Amen.
I follow you so far.
Okay.
Now, the excesses of the charismatic movement of
time and some of the junk you see
on TV, although there's good stuff mixed in
there, people are very sincere.
But those excesses, the devil's playing us.
He's playing us so that then there'll be
no Holy Spirit.
Just have a Bible study and go home.
And what does it produce?
Divorce rate the same as the country now,
right?
Not much love for people who are different.
See, the Holy Spirit is the only one
who can make you love someone who's different
than you.
Otherwise, the blacks will be with the blacks
and the whites will be with the whites.
And we're going to talk about God is
love.
When the Holy Spirit gets a hold of
you, you start seeing people the way God
sees them.
Come on.
This is good.
Come on.
You got to say Amen.
So we're hopeless without the Holy Spirit.
And that's why, as the minister said so
well this morning, we need to be daily
renewed by the Holy Spirit.
Now, who has the Holy Spirit?
Well, all Christians have the Holy Spirit.
Remember, the Holy Spirit's a person.
God the Father, God the Son, and God
the...
Where does the Holy Spirit live?
He lives inside of every believer.
What's the proof of that?
Romans 8.
If anyone has not the Spirit of Christ,
he doesn't belong to Christ.
You've been born again by the Spirit.
So every true born-again believer...
And by the way, that'll make you challenge
your thinking.
You would think if someone's born again by
the Holy Spirit, there'd be some vital signs
that they're alive.
Right?
Not that they just joined the church.
Right?
Their life would be changed.
For if anyone is in Christ Jesus, they
are a new creation.
Why are they a new creation?
Because the Holy Spirit lives inside of them.
God's not working with Jim Cymbala.
I'm so rotten and ruined and wrecked and
messed up that God's never gonna work with
me.
He only works through me by putting His
Spirit inside of me.
God's not changing Jim Cymbala, my fleshly nature,
who I am by my birth from Nicholas
and Estelle Cymbala.
He never works with me.
He bypasses me.
I'm too ruined.
But He says, I'll put a new Spirit
in you.
I'll give you a new heart.
And then the change comes as God lives
out through us.
That's why the Bible is so strong when
it says, don't grieve the Holy Spirit and
don't quench the Holy Spirit.
Why?
Because that's our life.
He's the one who communicates everything of Christ
to my life is the Holy Spirit.
So don't grieve Him.
Notice, grieve Him.
He's a person.
You can hurt His feelings.
Don't quench Him.
Don't put out His fire as some translations
have.
Okay, so the Holy Spirit lives inside a
very true born again believer, which makes you
wonder now how that all works.
Now, what's the difference between being a Christian
and being filled with the Holy Spirit?
Now, there's a lot of positional teaching, which
is basically held by much of the evangelical
world that I would now just tell you
my view of it.
And then you, I don't want to debate
with anyone.
You search the scriptures, find out what you
believe.
Everyone not only has the Holy Spirit living
in them, but everyone is full of the
Holy Spirit.
So don't talk about fullness of the Holy
Spirit because then you're going to get into
like, who's more spiritual and now you're getting
judgmental.
And because you allowed meetings, that means you
think you're filled with the Holy Spirit and
we're more sedate and we're not filled with
the Holy Spirit.
Okay, I'd like to suggest this to you.
The Holy Spirit is not a gas or
a liquid.
The Holy Spirit is a person.
Am I right?
So filled is a bad word.
Are you filled?
Because filled makes me think of a glass
of water.
It's filled, overflowing.
And that imagery and that metaphor is okay
for some things.
But the Holy Spirit's a person.
So when the Bible speaks about being filled
with the Holy Spirit, Bonita Afriani, the Smiths
in Guyana, Pastor Cristina and her daughter Millie
in Dominican Republic who are here today, they
need to be filled with the Holy Spirit
in the sense of being controlled by the
Holy Spirit.
When someone's full of the devil, what are
they really?
Controlled by the devil.
The devil's not omnipresent.
He can't be inside of everyone.
Demons can possess people and we've seen that
happen here and overseas.
And seeing God set people free.
But it's influence.
It's control.
And I would like to suggest to you
that not all churches are controlled and strongly
influenced by the Holy Spirit even though they're
Christians.
I'd like to suggest to you that every
believer and every pastor is not full of
the Holy Spirit in the pulpit.
If we were, how would we end up
like we are?
The Holy Spirit is God Almighty.
And I have paltry results in my own
life and in my preaching and I'm gonna
blame that on what?
Secular humanism?
No prayer in schools?
That is a joke.
That's such a joke.
President Obama's the problem.
President Bush was the problem.
That's such a joke.
Nothing can stop the church if the church
is operating under the power of the Holy
Spirit.
Come on, can we say amen to that?
So let me give you further biblical proof,
okay?
One of the qualifications of being a deacon,
if you want to call that in Acts
6, when they chose the seven men so
that the apostles could give themselves to the
word and prayer.
One of the qualifications is choose out seven
men among you who are known to be
full of the spirit and wisdom.
The qualification was they had to be known
to be full of the spirit.
They don't tell us, but I'd like to
know how they know that.
Now, if everyone was full of the Holy
Spirit, why would they make that a qualification?
That's like choose seven men that are breathing.
Well, everyone's breathing.
No, choose seven men who are known.
They have the reputation of being filled, controlled,
influenced by the Holy Spirit.
You ever noticed that on Paul's first missionary
journey where his name was changed on the
island of Multithink?
And it says, and then Paul, who was
called Saul, or Saul who was called Paul,
full of the Holy Spirit said to that
Simon Bar-Jesus, you son of the devil.
And then he does a work of power
because the Holy Spirit is on him.
Why would it say full of the Holy
Spirit there if everyone is at all times
full of the Holy Spirit?
I can tell you from my own testimony,
I have not always been full of the
Holy Spirit.
Control of the Holy Spirit?
No, no, no, no.
So that was a qualification to be a
deacon.
Imagine to be a deacon.
Think of some of the positions we give
to people.
Think of that.
We give positions to people without even praying,
without even asking spiritual questions.
What most of us are into because of
the church growth movement, are they sharp?
Are they clever?
Are they good on the computer?
I found out that a lot of sharp
people are so sharp, they can cut you.
They can cut you if they're not filled
with the Holy Spirit.
I'm all for sharp people, but the church
will never be built by sharp people.
Wall Street has sharp people.
The church is supposed to have spirit control.
Come on, spirit-filled people.
So one other verse.
I gave you the verse about the qualifications
of the deacons, Acts 6.
Ephesians 5 verse 23, I think it is.
Don't be filled with wine where there's excess.
By the way, when you get drunk, what
is the wine doing to you?
Controlling you.
On the day of Pentecost, when they were
speaking in other tongues, which is found in
the scriptures, by the way, and Paul boasted
that he was glad he spoke in tongues
more than everyone, what did they think they
were, the crowd that gathered?
These guys are drunk.
Why?
Because they were being controlled by an outside
influence.
Oh, I would love for all of our
meetings to get drunk by the Holy Spirit.
Now, whether we're ready to pay that price
of having the world laugh at us, but
I'd rather have the world laugh at us
and us have power in our ministry than
the world fit in with us and say,
oh, that's clever, that's nice, see?
And then we're insipid and powerless.
So Paul says in Ephesians 5, don't be
filled with wine and awareness, excess, but be
being filled, literal present tense.
Literally in the Greek, it's the continuous present
tense.
Be, which doesn't make sense, but it's what
it means here, be being filled, keep on
being filled with the Holy Spirit.
Now, if all Christians are just by birthright
as believers, always filled with the Holy Spirit,
why would Paul say keep on being filled
with the Holy Spirit?
I have to be filled with the Holy
Spirit.
I'm just claiming that positionally.
I am filled with the Holy Spirit.
No, to be controlled by the Holy Spirit
comes by yielding ourselves, having faith and asking
God, God, I want you to fill me
with the Holy Spirit.
And I know that's just the beginning.
That's just the entrance into the room.
There's levels of being filled that go beyond
the beyond.
Maybe none of us in this room know
what God could really do through any of
us if we were totally controlled by the
Holy Spirit.
You know, there's a girl walking around here.
You've seen her.
She's helping clean, and she's not even this
tall.
And she was filled with the devil, literally
evil spirits more than one many years ago
and brought in to be prayed for in
a prayer meeting.
Somebody out there, see if Diana is around
in the building, just happens to be in
this building.
Just want you to see her for her
size because of what she did.
And when she came forward, we're going to
pray for her.
They were brought her forward.
I didn't know her mother was a brujita,
a witch.
And I did not know.
I just heard she was on drugs.
And and they brought her to the front.
And suddenly she threw off the couple that
had walked up with her.
And she's voice started screaming at us.
Leave her alone.
She's ours.
Leave her alone.
Get away from her.
You want to talk about a place turning
into a prayer meeting that night, church prayer
meeting.
And she grabbed me, ripped the collar of
a shirt just as a button down shirt.
Back in the days when I wore suits
on Tuesday.
And she ripped the collar of a dress
shirt like it was tissue and grabbed me
and threw me against the wall.
I just next thing happened, her head would
start spinning around like in the omen or
one of those things you talk about.
She has superhuman power.
She's around here.
She'll just walk in.
Don't we won't say what we just said
about her.
She knows I give her testimony.
But I mean, she just and I keep
kidding her and saying, you never bought me
a shirt all these years that you owe
me a shirt.
Size 1634.
She never got me a shirt.
But anyway, she was controlled.
And if she could do that control by
Satan.
What do you think the potential is for
us being filled by God?
What kind of sermons do you think?
Come on, what kind of word of wisdom?
What kind of word of knowledge?
What kind of insight into people?
Okay, last one, Laodicea.
I know that you're neither hot nor cold,
but look warm.
I'm going to vomit you out of my
mouth.
Was that church a Christian church?
Yes, it was.
Check Revelation chapter one and two.
Jesus is walking among the seven golden lampstands,
which are the seven what churches?
Are you going to try to tell me
that Laodicea was filled with the Holy Spirit?
Are you going to try to convince me
that he's going to vomit?
Out of his mouth, but they're filled with
the Holy Spirit.
No, they're not.
And a lot of our churches are not
filled with the Holy Spirit.
And a lot of us are get up
in the pulpit.
Unfortunately, we're not controlled by the Holy Spirit.
But I want to be God wants us
to be.
That's the secret to prayer being birth.
That's the secret to more powerful ministry.
Sometimes if you believe this and you go
outside the curve of your denomination, they might
throw you out or they might think you're
weird or you're going charismatic.
I don't care what any of those people
say.
Jesus said, you know, a tree by its
fruit.
With all the needs around.
Come on up here, Diana.
Not going to do anything bad.
Diana, I just was telling the people about
how great things God can do when he
fills us with his spirit.
And I was telling them about how Satan
can control us.
And I just gave them a little of
your testimony.
And told them that you're so cheap.
You never bought me a shirt in all
these years.
1634.
But this is the girl.
Come on, let's hear it for Diana Berrios.
Now, God had it that she was in
this building.
And now you saw it.
How could she?
How could she do that to me?
Come on, look at me.
How could she do that to me?
Look at me.
Look at this.
Look over there.
Like I wasn't even there.
And I picked her up.
And finally, in the name of the Lord,
we threw her down on the floor.
And she was spitting and eyes rolling in
her head.
Just possessed, controlled.
But I don't want to make a big
thing about that.
I want to say, God, do it for
us with your Holy Spirit.
That's why demon possession is just the counterfeit
of what God wants to do with us.
You say, well, what manifestations will come?
God won't do anything outside the Bible.
If anything happens that's not found in the
Bible, don't do it.
There wasn't God.
Okay, you start crawling like a snake.
Someone in the church or doing something, you
know, be sure it's not of the Holy
Spirit.
But if you're going to write off something
that's in the Bible, that's between you and
God.
That's between you and God.
But just remember the warning.
Anybody who adds one word to this or
takes away one word.
Let all the curses that are in this
book be upon them.
Someone wrote me and said, are you a
charismatic?
Are you a Pentecostal?
Pastor, write me back because the pastor says
not to read your books because you believe
in all kinds of weird things and all
of this.
And you're like those TBN people that are,
you know, blowing on people and winking at
the camera and all of that stuff and
all of that.
And I wrote back to her and said,
I'm not a charismatic.
I'm not a Pentecostal.
I'm not evangelical.
I'm not a Baptist.
I am, as my father-in-law taught
me, I want to be a New Testament
Christian.
If it exalts Christ, wait, if it exalts
Christ, and if it's in the New Testament,
I'm for it.
If it's not in the New Testament, I'm
against it.
But may God give all of us that
grace.
You know what's in the room now?
We have a hunger here, don't we?
Come on, just lift your hands right where
you are.
Come on, lift up your hands and let's
just start to praise God out loud.
Can you do that?
We praise you, Lord.
Oh God, we need you.
I need you, Lord.
Come, Holy Spirit.
We need you for prayer, for ministry, for
everything, Lord.
Let something come suddenly from heaven in our
churches, Lord.
In our prayer meeting tonight, in our ministries,
Lord.
In our marriages with our children and our
grandchildren, come, Holy Spirit.
We want the fullness of whatever you have
for us.
We don't want a counterfeit, but we want
you, Holy Spirit.
We want you, Holy Spirit.
And if other people mock us, and if
other people say, no, you're getting fanatical, Lord,
help us to just humbly hold to the
truth, to your Word of God, the Word
of God.
Lord, as we go into the prayer meeting
tonight, I just pray that this hunger will
be carried over into that prayer meeting.
And as we anoint these people with oil,
the symbol of the Holy Spirit, that there
will be an explosion coming in their lives
and hearts, something from heaven.
And when the day of Pentecost was fully
come, they were all in one place in
one accord, and suddenly there came a sound
from heaven.
What we want is something from heaven, not
something worked up from ourselves, not something that
we're conned into or pushed into by somebody
else.
We want something from heaven, Lord, something from
heaven, something pure, something supernatural, something full of
power, something that will glorify Christ, something that
will produce prayer and holy living.
Thank you, Jesus.