Transcription by CastingWords 1-877-893-TALK.
That's 1-877-893-8255.
Now, here's your host, Dr. Albert Muller.
Hello America, welcome to the Albert Muller program.
I am here in Chicago, Illinois at the
Moody Bible Institute, and we appreciate the hospitality
of the Moody Radio Network today, and I
am here for the Moody Pastors Conference 2008.
And I'm glad to be here with so
many pastors, about 1,200 here this morning,
and I'll be speaking Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday
mornings.
I'm speaking on the power of the Word
of God in expository preaching.
And I'm also thrilled to be here at
the conference with Keith and Kristen Getty, two
of my very favorite people involved in what
I see as a renaissance in Christian hymnody.
And many of you are singing their songs,
and you will know the tunes, and certainly
your hearts will be moved by the words,
and you'll recall them.
And today we're going to be talking about
exactly what's going on right now, as there's
so much confusion in churches about worship, about
music, and about what should and can be
sung.
We'll be talking to Keith and Kristen Getty
in just a moment.
First, to review some issues in the news,
at my website at albertmuller.com, I posted
a couple of articles in recent days having
to do with what's going on in the
world, and there is so much.
For instance, in Great Britain, the Parliamentary vote
came this week concerning the authorization for the
use of human embryos in stem cell research,
and the creation of animal-human hybrid embryos,
and the creation through in vitro fertilization of
what are known as Savior siblings.
And the British Parliament moved rather overwhelmingly to
approve all of these, and to shut down
efforts to put limitations, even though there was
massive opposition from the Roman Catholic Church, from
the Church of England, and from even within
the Labour government, headed by Prime Minister Gordon
Brown.
The Prime Minister allowed what is known as
a free vote, which in the Parliamentary system
meant that members of his own cabinet could
vote against the government's policy, and at least
three did.
But nonetheless, Gordon Brown, in an article published
in the Observer, that's the Sunday version of
the Guardian newspaper of London, that's more the
left-wing paper associated long-term with the
Labour Party, he came out with a statement
that he claimed was his argument for why
his government would support the creation of animal
-human hybrid embryos, and the use of human
embryos in human stem cell research.
Now, his article said this, he asked the
question, should scientists be given the legal framework
that they need to pursue new cures and
treatments through stem cell research, or will we
turn our back on these potential advances?
Should children who face death or critical illness
find new hope in scientific advances that would
allow their new brother or sister to be
not just a blessing to their family, but
also a saviour sibling to them?
And should people be able to approach IVF
clinics without fear of discrimination on the grounds
of their sexual orientation?
My answer to all these questions is an
unequivocal yes.
Now, I believe in this case, the Prime
Minister of Great Britain has offered one of
the worst arguments imaginable.
And not only that, but he lacks the
cowardice, actually, excuse me, he lacks the courage
and demonstrates cowardice in failing to make an
argument at all.
He claims it's an argument, but it is
merely an assertion.
When you set up a situation asking should
scientists be given the legal framework they say
they need to pursue new cures and treatments,
or will we turn our back on these
potential advances, I can guarantee you you're not
going to be answering that no.
You're setting up the question in a dishonest
way, which is exactly what he did.
But I'll tell you what's most dishonest about
the British Prime Minister's approach here.
He acknowledges that there are those who have
problems.
He says this, I have deep respect for
those who do not agree with some of
the provisions in the bill because of religious
conviction.
But I believe that we owe it to
ourselves and future generations to introduce these measures,
and in particular, to give our unequivocal backing
within the right framework of rules and standards
to stem cell research.
Now, notice a couple of things.
He says that he has respect for those
whose convictions would not allow this research.
But then he goes on and again insists
that his government will offer unequivocal support.
Well, if you offer unequivocal support, then you
don't have any respect for the arguments against.
And in this case, he doesn't even acknowledge
what the arguments are against embryonic stem cell
research.
He doesn't acknowledge at all.
The concern of Christians that every single human
being, including the human embryo, is made in
the image of God.
There is no acknowledgment of the argument whatsoever.
He goes on and he concludes with this
as saviors.
Excuse me.
The doctors and scientists I speak to are
committed to what they see as an inherently
moral endeavor that can save and improve the
lives of thousands and over time, millions of
people.
They believe that can combine this work with
a deep commitment to the highest ethical standards
and sincere respect for religious beliefs.
End quote.
Now, the prime minister here speaks of his
deep respect for those whose convictions clash with
his own, but his respect doesn't even extend
to acknowledging what the convictions are.
And then he speaks enthusiastically of scientists.
He assures us that they are committed to
what they see as an inherently moral endeavor,
and they'll combine their work with a sincere
respect for religious beliefs.
Well, what scientists would say that his work
isn't inherently moral?
What scientists would make a proposal to the
British Parliament for immoral research, claiming and acknowledging
that it's immoral.
The Nazi doctors who were doing medical experiments
on live human beings believed in their hearts
that what they were doing was moral.
They claimed they were doing it because this
would lead to treatments for dreaded diseases.
The same thing is true in other places
where you have a routine trampling upon human
rights by people who say they're doing it
for a greater good.
There's no acknowledgement here whatsoever of the seriousness
of this issue.
And then he adds insult to injury at
the very end by saying that the scientists
are going to do this work with sincere
respect for religious beliefs, which is just manifestly
untrue.
If they respected the beliefs, they wouldn't be
doing it.
They don't respect the beliefs.
I would have had more respect for the
British prime minister if he had just come
out and said, I believe the people who
believe that the human embryo is made in
the image of God are insane.
That would have made more sense than to
say, I sincerely respect their beliefs, but my
government will take a position that tramples those
beliefs.
The Los Angeles Times is on to something
we really need to know about having to
do with last week's decision by the California
Supreme Court striking down California's definition of marriage
as the union of a man and a
woman.
The Los Angeles Times acknowledges that this is
going to force every single congregation in the
state of California to take a side.
Given just a short amount of time, every
single congregation within the state of California is
going to have to decide, do we do
and do we recognize same-sex unions?
It is a fascinating article, and I'll tell
you, as you look at it, and I
link to it from my article entitled The
Coming Great Divide, when you look at the
phenomenon going on there in California, and of
course we do hope and we fervently pray
that this situation will be reversed through the
opportunity of California voters to amend the Constitution
in November.
But if that fails, and if there is
no stay even between now and the 30
days that was ordered by the court last
week to begin handing out same-sex marriage
licenses, if this does take place, then just
consider this.
One avoidable outcome of the legalization of same
-sex marriage is that the great divide between
conservative and liberal churches and denominations will become
glaringly evident in a way that has not
yet been the case.
In other words, those who have eyes to
see and ears to hear know that there
is a tremendous theological divide between liberal and
conservatives.
With the liberals, what you have is an
abandonment of biblical authority, and you have those
who treat the Bible as merely a human
book.
Whereas on the conservative side, you have those
who believe that the Bible is indeed the
inerrant and infallible Word of God, and thus
we are bound to it.
Nevertheless, when it comes to something like marriage,
until now at least, both liberal and conservative
churches have been using the same vocabulary.
In both liberal and conservative churches, words have
made sense such as husband and wife.
One inevitable outcome of the legalization of same
-sex marriage is that those words will become
meaningless.
Furthermore, when liberal churches and conservative churches now
will use the word marriage, they no longer
mean the same thing.
And so the great divide, which is deeply
theological, becomes very much apparent with the issue
of same-sex marriage, and no congregation is
going to be able to hide.
Now, the paper, this is the Los Angeles
Times, looking at this phenomenon, not only look
to Christian congregations, but also to Jewish synagogues
and even to a Muslim mosque.
But when you get to the synagogues, something
very, very interesting was documented.
Rabbi Harold Schulweiss, who heads the conservative Jewish
congregation at Valley Beth Shalom in Encino, he
said, as he celebrated the decision, that he
will now perform these ceremonies.
He said, I was really waiting for this
decision.
From my point of view, it's very courageous
and part of the evolution of religious mores.
Now, by the way, when you look at
Judaism, conservative Judaism is not conservative.
That's a little problem in labeling.
Orthodox Judaism is what evangelicals would call conservative.
Conservative Judaism is what evangelicals would call liberal,
as is evidenced by Rabbi Schulweiss.
But I want you to hear what he
says here.
He goes on.
This is from the paper cited from Sunday.
Schulweiss has been a rabbi for more than
half a century and has seen his religion
evolve, first allowing women into the full ritual
life of the community, then ordaining them as
rabbis and cantors and eventually embracing homosexuals.
Quote, It's one of the most exciting parts
of seeing religion as not static and inflexible,
but is sensitive to different times and different
information and different knowledge.
What in the world did people in the
Bible time know about homosexuals?
You see, there's the great divide.
If you believe that what the Bible tells
us is what the people of the Bible
believed and no more, you do not believe
that the Bible is the word of God.
If you do believe that the Bible is
the word of God, then what we are
commanded in scripture is coming from God, not
just from people who lived 2000 years ago
and more, but from God himself.
If you believe that the Bible is just
a human book, then you can make marriage
or anything else, anything you want it to
be.
On the other hand, if you believe that
the Bible is God's own word, then you
are bound to what God says marriage is.
There's no negotiation and no place to hide.
We'll be back for a conversation with Keith
and Kristen Getty about Christian music and how
we can make sure that it is authentically
Christian.
Coast to coast and with listeners around the
world, you're listening to the Albert Moller Program.
The Superior Gold Group, a precious metals firm,
is proud to sponsor the Albert Moller Program.
You can get more information about buying gold
at 866-432-8656.
Here you hear Kristen Getty singing the song
by her husband Keith Getty and Stuart Talman,
and the song, In Christ Alone, I would
call it theologically a hymn, has become something
for this generation like the song How Great
Thou Art Was for a previous generation of
evangelicals, and it has also, I think, become
a symbol of a renaissance in new Christian
hymn writing, at which Keith and Kristen Getty
are standing at the center.
I want to welcome to the Albert Moller
Program Keith and Kristen Getty.
Thank you very much.
You know, that song, Keith, has been sung
now by millions and millions of people, and
they don't know the story of how it
came to be, and that is really a
part of what I think helps make hymns
meaningful to us when we understand the origin.
How did In Christ Alone come about?
Well, in short, I went through a journey
as a musician, finishing school, going to university
in England.
I was from Ireland, and really working through
did I believe in Christianity or not.
Primarily, many of my friends were Islamic, were
theologians who didn't believe in God, and the
two central questions for me were both the
uniqueness of Christ and then the authority of
Scripture.
After about a year of heart-wrenching questions,
I came to the conclusion that if Christ
was prophesied born, lived, taught, died, and rose
again and promised his return, that indeed it
offered you no other option in life to
either accept or reject.
That really helped me then rethink my faith.
At the same time, my music was growing,
and really struggled to access contemporary worship music,
and so for four years wasn't involved in
church music at all, then was encouraged to
write hymns by the pastor at a little
small Baptist church we went to, was introduced
to Stuart, and I said, what about writing
a hymn on the central life of Christ,
explaining what that life, what that means.
And this was the year 2000, most people
thought it was, to write a modern hymn
was probably right up there with designing a
new brand of typewriter, in terms of new
things that were, you know, cool, and where
the church was.
But we decided, let's write a hymn just
which explains the life of Christ, and what
that actually meant.
And it was as simple as really just
working, crafting a melody, and then crafting that
lyric.
And we tried it in our church of
180 people, and the pastor said he didn't
really like it, but it seems to have
traveled since.
Well, I'd say it sure has, and you
know, I was just in a group of
several thousand people singing it, and all already
knowing it, and there's just such a sense
of exultation, and of worship in singing it.
You know, we've seen so much in terms
of the transformation of Christian worship in recent
years, and we have a generation that's never
held a hymn book, and for them the
musical unit of the hymn is something that
is largely foreign.
We went through a phase of a lot
of these Christian worship songs, and I remember
one person who, I think very cleverly, just
identified the form of those songs as two
words, three notes, four hours, which is the
same thing just over and over and over
again, with very little content.
What you have brought, and those who are
doing this with you, is genuine biblical, theological,
Christ-honoring content, and that's what the best
hymns have always represented.
Yeah, I mean, I think, I'm not a
theologian, but it does seem clear that the
two core things in corporate congregational worship, there
are many things said to us as individuals,
but in corporate worship, I think the two
things in the Old Testament, New Testament, and
indeed in the promise of heaven, are that
songs that exalt and teach the great truths
of God, on which we live and move
and have our beings, and secondly, very simply,
are corporate, are something that everybody can sing
together, and so, I mean, I think that's
the two core things we've tried to put
at the heart of what we do, and
so we always ask at the end of
a song or the end of a service,
do these words nourish and build people up
in the scriptures, and secondly, can the congregation
sing it?
It's as simple as that.
Well, and when you ask the question, can
the congregation sing it, you're dealing with congregations
whose musical ability, musical knowledge, and musical taste
are not what they once were, and I
think one of the things you've been able
to do is to wed these words, so
rich in theological content, to music that is
genuinely singable, and that's a pretty significant achievement.
Yeah, well, it's something we've worked hard at,
and it's something we aim at, and we
put everything through that grid, as it were.
This has to be congregational, and I mean,
if there are millions of people singing in
Christ alone in churches this weekend, we also
have to accept that that represents, in America,
people who have choirs and organs and orchestras.
It represents people who have rock bands, but
the vast majority of those millions of people
that are singing in Christ alone either have
minimal music or no music, and in fact,
most of the people who sing it in
Russian or in Spanish are small fellowships of
believers who have no music at all, and
so if we go back to the basic
premise that it's got to be words that
nourish our souls and melodies that are singable,
we've tried to move towards almost like a
folk melody, so that if we can have
music which does help us in our singing,
that's great, but we're global Christians today, and
if it doesn't, if we don't have that,
then so be it.
I think one of the problems I see
in so much music is that the music
doesn't fit the words.
There's not a parallelism, a symmetry, a fit,
and if you have a resounding chorus on
something that's a minor theme, it just doesn't
fit.
I think one of the things I love
so much about your hymns is that they
reach a resounding point of congregational unity on
the biggest things.
That has to be by intention.
Yeah, gosh, I think Stuart and I have
worked in collaboration, and we're both musicians and
we're both lyricists, so people say that's usually
the worst combination because you both put your
fingers in each other's eyes a little bit,
but it's actually been very helpful because the
two of us have put our heads together
in the words and the two of us
have put our heads together in the music,
and while I consider him a far superior
lyricist certainly, it's helped us wed songs that
actually work in that sense.
Now how long have you two been married,
Keith and Kristen?
We've been married, it'll be four years next
month, and we met back in Ireland.
I was 18, Keith was 24, and we
started writing songs together.
That's what first brought us together, our interest
in music and love of the local church
and trying to use our songwriting in that
context.
Somewhere along the way it became a different
partnership, it became marriage.
Well, that's a sweet thing, and it's wonderful
to see the two of you together as
I have so many times.
Your infectiousness helps, I think, people to understand
that worship is to be something that's joyful,
and that's something you really have helped us
to see.
Well, there's so much to sing about, and
when you remember it's the truth that sets
us free, we can really enjoy the message
without having to focus on some sort of
emotional experience or anything like that, but just
really enjoy the truth of the gospel.
One of the interesting things we're going to
talk about when we come back is that
in this resurgence or renaissance of New Hymn
to Thee, there are some musical forms that,
well, are really very traditional when you understand
them.
There's a generation beginning to understand some old
things even while singing some new things.
Coast to coast and with listeners around the
world, you're listening to the Albert Miller program.
To join the conversation and to talk yourselves,
to Keith and Kristin Getty, give me a
call at 877-893-8255, 877-893-TALK.
You're singing their music.
You know these songs.
You may not know the story of how
they came to be or who was used
to produce them, to write them, and as
you heard Kristin sing, to sing them.
This is the place for Intelligent Christian Conversation.
Give me a call at 877-893-8255.
You're listening to the Albert Miller program.
You're listening to the Albert Miller program, your
place for Intelligent Christian Conversation about the issues
that matter.
To get online, call toll-free 1-877
-893-TALK.
That's 1-877-893-8255 or go to
www.albertmiller.com.
Here again is your host, Dr. Albert Miller.
Welcome back to the Albert Miller program.
My guest today, Keith and Kristin Getty, and
we're having a really fascinating conversation about what's
going on in church music, a renaissance of
hymnody, at which they are very much at
the center.
Hymns such as In Christ Alone and See
What a Morning.
Also, The Power of the Cross, which is
one of my favorites.
There are so many of these songs being
sung in your churches by those who listen
to this program, and you may not know
who is behind this, and at least in
terms of the composition, you're talking very much
Keith Getty and Stuart Townend.
Then we've heard so many of these songs
sung and been taught to sing them by
Kristin Getty as well.
Now, it's not subtle that the two of
you have an Irish accent, and to an
American ear, we pick up on that immediately.
Yet, I want to reach back there and
ask this question, not only in terms of
Christian hymnody, but in terms of a lot
of popular music.
Why is Celtic music associated with Ireland so
much a part of this renaissance of music
in our time?
Well, I think Celtic music and Irish music,
if you look through every decade, has been
popular.
It probably peaked slightly in the 90s in
the popular world with Riverdance, but I think
every decade, Irish music has produced fresh things,
and I think for me, between 20 and
25, when I was taking my elongated sabbatical
from church worship and studying to be just
a successful musician, I guess, my hero was
George Gershwin, because he wrote pop songs that
went to number one on the charts, that
became Broadway hits, that the jazz music world
loved and respected above all other composers in
the history of music, but also that could
fit in between a Tchaikovsky overture and a
Schumann symphony and a classical concert, and that
was an age way, way before pop's music,
pop's concerts.
It was an age where classical music was
a much more stuffy and conservative place, and
yet a Gershwin song fitted anywhere.
So I spent a lot of time just
reading everything I could, and Gershwin always said
the root of music was folk music, a
thing which Stravinsky said the same, but took
a different direction, and so I began to
think a lot about that, and then, of
course, Bernstein began to sort of crystallise some
of those ideas when he talked a lot
about the fact that folk music itself is
modal, it's pentatonic, and it's on a Chinese
harp, and you heard a Chinese folk melody
on an Irish whistle.
Some of them you can tell the difference
on, but some of them are actually remarkably
similar.
I think it has to do with common
grace, by the way.
When I read the Elliott lectures, one of
the things I thought of is that this
is really a demonstration of the fact that
music is a language which our creator has
given us as his creatures.
That's right, and he created the harmonic system
out of which we get a pentatonic scale
and the modal scales, and so I started
to do that, and I noticed three, four
years before I wrote In Christ Alone, Stuart
wrote a song called He Deepeth The Father's
Love, and it seemed to reach the same
way, and then I think in the one
year I heard six different rock bands record
Be Thou My Vision, which is a fifth
-century Irish melody to a seventh-century Irish
lyric, and so we began to think, you
know, if we could combine these melodies with
Stuart's very hymnic style of hymn writing, or
indeed Kristen's slightly more poetic hymnic style of
hymn writing, and Fugue's sort of classic poetry
around these folk melodies, we could create something
which would be sung in the cathedrals, that
would be sung in the contemporary rock bands,
but that would also translate into other languages
and be part of the growing church around
the world.
I am so encouraged, there are so many
projects going back and finding old hymns, the
Gadsby hymns, you know, you've got things going
on with the recovery of a lot of
Charles Wesley's hymns, you know, hundreds and hundreds
of them never sung, you know, in recent
decades.
Sure.
And even some of the hymns, as you
mentioned, Oh Sacred Head Now Wounded, Be Thou
My Vision, you're looking at very old hymns,
some of them predating what we would even
know as the great age of hymnody after
the Reformation.
Some by many hundreds of years as well.
And it's just tremendously meaningful, I think, to
be singing something that Christians have sung for
centuries.
There's something deeply spiritually grounding about that.
Yeah, I think whether you're a composer, or
whether you're a worship leader, or whether you're
just a church leader of responsibility, whose responsibility
overlaps with music and worship.
I think we all need to take a
good dose of humility, in terms of learning
that we stand on tall shoulders.
Every great preacher I've ever known has gleaned
from people who are older than them, and
who are in their late years of their
life, has gleaned from people of previous generations,
has gleaned from the Puritans and the Reformers,
and has gleaned from many of the church
fathers who go back much further.
And that is not replacing scripture, that is
helping and enriching their learning.
And I think we need to come to
an age where the modern worship music stops
trying to reinvent itself unnecessarily for gimmickry, but
actually learns from the great rich music tradition
that we grow out of.
You know, I think when you look at
change in music, it's always threatening to people,
even as every generation seems to learn a
new language.
But if you're really learning a new language,
you're assembling it from parts that already exist.
And it's really a language that our Creator
gave us.
And the Creator gave us the language of
music for His glory, in order that we
would be the only creatures on earth who
could consciously self-consciously praise and worship Him.
When we come back, we'll continue our discussion
with Keith and Kristen Getty.
The Superior Gold Group, a precious metals firm,
is proud to sponsor the Albert Moeller Program.
You can get more information about buying gold
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I am free.
Death is crushed to death.
Life is mine to live.
Walk through your selfless life.
This the power of the cross.
Welcome back to the Albert Moeller Program.
You're listening there to Kristen Getty singing the
song, The Power of the Cross, written by
Keith Getty and Stuart Townend.
It's a remarkable piece of music.
I wrote an article about it, I don't
know, two or three years ago.
And it struck me as one of those
hymns that declares the great truths concerning what
Christ has done for us in the power
of the cross and does so.
And when I mentioned earlier that your music
finds a way to resound in exactly the
right place and to end, I think, resolve.
The resolution comes in exactly the right place.
That last line, we stand forgiven at the
cross, it's just a beautiful musical resolve there.
And, you know, if you really believe that,
and when you sing that, you can then
go home.
You can then go on and live another
week until you come back to sing that
again.
Yeah, and I sing it about five times
every weekend.
That's great.
And, you know, when you think about the
music, so much of hymnody in general, but
especially the Renaissance of New Hymnody, is of
songs that are basically narrative.
They tell a story.
And I think, for instance, of In Christ
Alone, because that is probably the most familiar
of your songs that people are now singing
in churches.
And you really go through the story of
what God did for us in Christ and
about Christ's faithfulness.
You deal with his crucifixion and his resurrection,
and then you declare the victory.
Why do you think, Kristen, that so much
of what speaks to us most deeply comes
in the form of a story?
I think storytelling really engages our imagination.
And the gospel itself is given to us
in a story form.
The whole Bible is full of stories.
And I think it's a wonderful way to
hold people's concentration in a song.
It's a wonderful way to clothe the truths
and the statements of truth in the story
and in a sense of journeying through an
idea.
I think it also helps us remember things.
I find it very difficult to remember a
list of lines or just straight truths like
that.
But when you put it in a story,
it's a wonderful way to remember.
And this was true of children of Israel
as well.
Yeah.
And all through the Psalms, we read many
Psalms where we're just remembering Psalm 78 to
tell the next generation the wonders of what
he has done.
And it basically goes through the wonderful story
of the run from Egypt and the liberation
of the Jews.
And then also in Deuteronomy 31, just reading
that recently as we were going through the
one-year Bible in our studies, where God
tells Moses, tell the Israelites what I want
to tell them through this song.
And so they might remember what I have
done.
And then also add the sobering thought that
it might be a witness against them if
they actually turn away from the truth that
their mouths are declaring.
This is something that they know that they're
singing, and their lives should echo what it
is they know.
So we're judged by what we sing.
When we stand every Sunday, we're declaring what
we know, and that will testify against us
and for us.
Keith, let me ask you, when you are
thinking about writing for this generation, what do
you think is a challenge you face that,
for instance, Charles Wesley didn't face?
What's different about this generation?
Well, I think from a purely musical point
of view, you have this split between the
contemporary and the traditionals in church.
And that has all kinds of unusual theological
and ecclesiological dynamics that come along with that.
But when we first started, there was quite
a lot of stuff, even a few aggressive
things written about what we were trying to
do, suggesting that what we were doing was
pulling the church backwards, that the soundbite generation
needed songs that were simple in their own
language.
And we felt that when I talked to
the church, I said, I think the story
form will be the way to go within
Christ Alone.
Taking people in a story, they will sing
theology till they're blue in the face if
it's in a story.
And the same thing was with those who
are looking for a more theological approach to
singing, who wanted an immortal, invisible, but we
knew that the contemporary generation had moved so
far.
A hymn that looks at 20 characteristics of
God in one verse was going to be
a tough leap and a tough thing to
make.
So we started telling the stories.
And of course, great songs from great ballads
to great folk songs to great country songs
to great Broadway songs are often great stories.
And so that was very much a deliberate
part of what we were doing.
We try to do it in a common
vernacular because obviously, some of the older hymns
are wonderful, we still sing them.
But I think each generation needs its new
music.
And it's great to be able to capture
some of these stories in a way that
is very accessible to people.
And I think after then is also catching
what it means to live every day.
The last verse of most of our hymns
almost is an application of a sermon, the
fourth verse in Christ Alone, Power of the
Cross and all the rest.
And I think that's a challenge.
And we spent we spent I think with
in Christ Alone came quick, but in the
Power of the Cross, we spent really a
year writing, we wrote 19 different verses, worked
through them, and eventually came down to four.
You're glad that we don't sing all night.
But you know, the amazing thing is that
a lot of the older hymns would have
13, 14 verses, you start looking at some
of Wesley's hymns or Isaac Watts hymns, it's
amazing how many verses they originally had.
Yeah, but that last line is when we
stand forgiven at the cross was actually the
last thing that really held us back because
I wanted, I wanted the traditional classical approach
of forgiven where the big word was the
top note, and Stuart wanted we stand because
it was a proclamation.
And so we, we come around, you know,
as a writer, you have to try and
write in a way that actually captures people's
emotions.
So it's so much more than theology.
Indeed, it's so much more than even poetry
to try and get words that people sing
and emotionally make them reach them in a
deeper level, make them stand a quarter of
an inch taller in their tiptoes when they
sing.
That's one of the good things about artistic
collaboration, then there's that artistic tension created as
you come from two different approaches to try
and create good art essentially in this music.
Okay, I have to ask you the question
that a lot of people want to know,
you're a married couple and you do this.
Do you wake up in the middle of
the night and say, I got a song?
Occasionally we do actually.
When the three of us write together, it's
always difficult because Stuart always considers a level
of loyalty because he's the oldest one of
the three of us by quite a distance
we've written for a long time and often
he and Kristen clash in words, but Kristen's
making the dinner so that that can create
a real tension.
Well, you know, this is a human endeavor
and it's just amazing to me that God
has gifted some of his human creatures, some
human creatures far more than others with a
gift and both of you, Kristen's ability both
to write and to sing and Keith's ability
to write lyrics and to compose music that
is just so moving.
I'm just thankful for both of you.
I want you to know that and I
want to thank you for the gift that
you are and the many gifts you've given
to Christ Church in this generation.
And I'll be back with final thoughts in
just a moment on the Albert Miller program.
It is incredibly tragic that in far too
many churches, worship music has become a matter
of disunity rather than unity of controversy and
confrontation rather than of communion together and singing
a common confession.
You know, one of the things that amazes
me about what God does among his people
in worship is that he allows people to
sing a song together.
For instance, where else are you going to
have a 16 year old and a 90
year old singing the same song?
Where else are you going to have someone
who comes from one sector of our culture
sing along with someone that comes from a
very different part?
People dressed in suits and people, you know,
wearing cargo shorts singing the same music that
doesn't happen elsewhere in the culture.
I believe it happens mostly in the church
and it happens because we have something we
really do need to sing together.
Keith and Kristen Getty have helped us to
learn how to sing many of these great
truths together.
You must find it very satisfying to see
people young and old and from so many
different walks of life and so many different
cultures singing your music.
It's been one of the greatest things.
Every Sunday sings, as you said, different generations
gathering together where often they'd maybe be in
their own separate rooms doing their own music.
There's bound to be a way that musically
we can come together and reflect what it
means to be the body of Christ.
And I want to say a word of
appreciation again for the fact you've written music
can be played on a pipe organ or
a fiddle, you know, or for that matter,
an acoustical guitar or an electronic keyboard.
And for all I know somewhere, just a
drum and a flute.
It works.
And that's something important.
We'll leave you another word of thanks, but
also a word of encouragement to those who
are listening to the program.
I think when I imagine the power of
hymns back to what Elizabeth Elliot had to
say about her experience on the night that
Jim Elliot and his compatriots disappeared, and we
later know were martyred for the cause of
the gospel, as she knew in her heart
that her husband must be dead.
And as she with her children is there
in the middle of a deep, dark jungle
and wilderness, she said that she was kept
alive through the night by the power of
hymns, the hymns she had sung since she
was a little girl that came alive in
her heart.
And when she couldn't wrap her mind even
around the scripture, the way she had memorized
so many verses of scripture, simply because of
the trauma of the situation.
Music has a way of getting through a
crack, even in the trauma and reaching the
heart.
That's why it's important to have it there
at that moment.
It's at those times that you really lean
on the music.
And so you want to feed people with
it as much as you can for those
moments.
Well, and you have fed so much good
music because I want people in that moment,
when that moment comes for anyone to have
music that is going to be genuinely God
honoring and Christ proclaiming and centered in the
gospel.
You've been listening to the Albert Miller Program.
Thanks to my guests, Keith and Kristen Getty.
And thanks to the Moody Bible Network for
giving us a place today as I'm here
for the Moody Pastors Conference 2008.
I'll meet you tomorrow for Ask Anything Wednesday
on the Albert Miller Program.
Thanks for listening and be sure to visit
our website www.albertmiller.com.
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