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Welcome to From the Pulpit.

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Each week we bring you a different message

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from some of history's greatest speakers in the

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Christian faith and powerful sermons from modern preachers

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too.

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This week we have Tony Dale with his

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message, Simple Church.

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I understand I was introduced in my absence.

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I hope they said nice things.

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It's kind of like saying grace before a

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meal and you have no idea what's going

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to be served.

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It's really good to be here with you

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folks.

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I was thrilled to bits to hear those

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stories.

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Here's some of the good things that God's

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doing.

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It actually is a very specific introduction to

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some of the stuff that I'm going to

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be talking about over the next couple of

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days.

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I want to read you a verse of

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scripture maybe as a justification for why I'll

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also tell lots of stories because I think

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that's a biblical way of trying to explain

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some of the things of God.

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And this comes in Romans chapter 15.

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Romans chapter 15 and verse 17 says this,

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Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my

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service to God.

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I will not venture to speak of anything

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except what Christ has accomplished through me in

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leading the Gentiles to obey God by what

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I have said and done, by the power

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of signs and miracles, through the power of

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the Spirit, so that from Jerusalem all around

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to Illyricum I have fully proclaimed the gospel

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of Christ.

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It has always been my ambition to preach

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the gospel where Christ was not known so

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that I would not be building on someone

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else's foundation.

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I want to sort of start tonight by

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introducing ourselves to you a little bit because

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we're strangers really and I find it very

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difficult to speak to strangers.

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In fact the whole sort of arrangement here

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is designed to make us feel like strangers,

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isn't it?

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I mean when I was in medical school

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back in London I loved the opportunity to

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try and teach something or to get into

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the words.

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And we used to go out and do

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a lot of preaching in little churches and

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the like around London.

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And after one of these occasions a girl

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called Anne, who was a very close friend

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of Felicity's, she presented me with a picture.

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Now I don't know if you've seen sort

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of the classic English type of old style

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church, but it would have not really a

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pulpit like this but it would have a

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spiral staircase to a pulpit over here on

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one side.

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Because in the Anglican church there'd be the

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altar and that sort of stuff in the

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middle.

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And so the pulpit's over here and you

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climb up the spiral staircase into the pulpit.

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And often behind it there'd be a big

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stone column because that's how the church was

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built.

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So she drew this picture of me standing

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in this pulpit with a chain attaching me

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to the stone column behind and me like

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this in front of everybody.

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But that's the old style of communication isn't

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it?

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One of the things we've learned is that

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actually it doesn't matter a scrap how good

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a teacher anybody is.

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Now full apologies to the real teachers over

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here, you can tell I'm an amateur.

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But you know from our perspective as we've

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been involved in church planting we find that

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it honestly doesn't matter how good a teacher

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you are.

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What matters is whether or not people are

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learning anything.

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And in fact in our experience people learn

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a whole lot more the less teaching there

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is.

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Now I'm probably treading on toes already, I

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apologize.

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I'm kind of like that.

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But we find that the more people participate

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the more they remember.

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Now I am going to get you participating

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immediately.

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Does that sound good?

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Great!

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Then we need to get a whole lot

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closer to the front because unless I didn't

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put deodorant on this morning I cannot understand

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why like in a traditional church we filled

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up all the back rows and the poor

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guys at the front are left totally lonely.

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So why don't we come up and fill

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up as best we can.

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Anyway there's a saying isn't there that the

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mind will only, the mind can only cope

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with what the seed endures.

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So we'll give everybody a chance to get

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a bit more comfortable at the front.

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This is what Christian gatherings are like.

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There are people talking and hugging each other

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and so glad to see each other.

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And the whole idea that we have to

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somehow you know pretend that it's more important

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to listen to the guy at the front

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than it is to give a hug to

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a friend you haven't seen in a year.

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You know that's kind of a joke so

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I don't mind at all that you're taking

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an opportunity to make yourself comfortable.

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Now I said that I was going to

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try and introduce myself and my lovely wife

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over here and our son Jonathan who's got

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down here to the front.

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Let me ask a question because I don't

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want to bore you with the same stuff

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that you've already perhaps read or seen.

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How many of you read on any sort

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of a regular basis house-to-house magazine?

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Oh God help you.

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We are in serious trouble here.

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Okay well then you've already heard all of

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our stories and if you've read from the

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first issue you've probably even read Where I

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Was Born and all those sort of terrible

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things.

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My parents were missionaries in Taiwan and I

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tell people you can tell I'm made in

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Taiwan because I'm a cheap imitation.

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I don't even look Chinese.

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So quite what you're going to get over

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these next couple of days I'm not 100

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% sure.

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But it's an incredibly rich heritage that I

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had in the Lord.

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Mom and dad were medical missionaries in Taiwan.

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Dad's parents before him were medical missionaries in

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China and then in Africa.

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And something is built into your life over

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a period of generations.

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Things that we don't know and understand.

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But I remember sort of recognizing somewhere in

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my university years that I knew the scriptures

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more than most of the preachers I was

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listening to.

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And I'd never been to Bible school or

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anything like that at that point.

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But you know that there's the heritage of

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what is put into you by godly parents.

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And part of that heritage was a great

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hunger that we'd see something real.

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I guess being a missionary kid I hated

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pretense right from the beginning because I saw

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so much of it to be honest.

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Anyone else here sort of either a preacher

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kid or a missionary kid?

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Am I the only one?

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Did any of you see any pretense or

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was it all totally real where you were?

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The laughs tell me the truth.

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Okay.

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And there was something about this facade that

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called itself Christian but which bore so little

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relationship to what I read in the Bible

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that you know I went through really significant

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struggles trying to figure out if Jesus was

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for real.

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I knew he was for real for my

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parents but I didn't know if he was

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for real for me.

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I remember one thing.

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It's funny how these silly little things shape

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your life.

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And I hope you don't mind me introducing

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myself like this but it'll give you some

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idea of where I'm coming from and then

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maybe some of the things as we get

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into the scriptures will make a bit more

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sense.

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I went to a boarding school down in

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the middle of the island in Taichung and

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mom and dad ran a clinic up in

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Taipei which is in the north.

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So I didn't get home that often.

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Maybe one weekend every six or eight weeks

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something like that during school time.

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I remember this particular weekend actually we'd gone

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up to Taipei to play Taipei American school

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soccer as you call it or football as

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we do.

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Now you've probably already gathered I'm English.

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Okay I may come from Texas and you

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know the Texans think they're proud people.

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You know they have stickers on their cars

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saying I wasn't born here but I got

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here as fast as I could.

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Now you know do they do that in

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South Carolina?

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I don't know.

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You know the Texans have all sorts of

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idiosyncrasies and I'm still trying to figure them

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out.

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One of them is that they're absolutely obsessed

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about this game that they call football where

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they don't even use their feet to work

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with the ball.

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I don't understand it.

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The rest of the world of course is

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watching real football tonight and the Americans are

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getting even more confused because this morning they

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saw their team lose only to discover that

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that advances them to the next round.

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So you know it does get kind of

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confusing at times but this isn't an opportunity

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for us to talk about soccer much as

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I love the sport.

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But I remember a time I was about

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14 years old.

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We'd gone up back up to Taipei to

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play Taipei American school and that meant that

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the Saturday was completely blocked out with sports

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activities.

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Now I don't know a lot about you

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so I'm sorry I'm giving away some stories

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about myself but in the sort of family

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I was brought up in there were certain

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things that we were not allowed to do

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on a Sunday.

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And one of those things was that we

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were not allowed to go to a movie

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on a Sunday.

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Now I still haven't completely figured it out

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but maybe that's because I'm kind of slow

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but I was allowed to go on other

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days of the week but not on a

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Sunday.

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But there was a movie I really really

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wanted to see.

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Now you're probably not like this but you

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know if I find if I do anything

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naughty I remember every little detail of it.

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Yeah anyone else like that?

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You know it just sort of is trapped

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there in your mind.

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Anyway it comes to Sunday we go to

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church in the morning you know with mom

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and dad and after church we have lunch

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and I tell my parents that I'm going

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to go up to the Grand Hotel to

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go swimming.

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Now I was allowed to go swimming but

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I wasn't allowed to go to movies.

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Okay I still don't understand that but those

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were the rules in my house.

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And it's hot in Taiwan so you need

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to swim.

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And so I get out my swimsuit and

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I put it on the back of my

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bike and I cycle off in the direction

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of the Grand Hotel.

278
00:09:42,900 --> 00:09:44,400
But as soon as I'm out of sight

279
00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,460
of the house I sort of change direction.

280
00:09:47,620 --> 00:09:49,840
I head off downtown and I go to

281
00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:50,400
see this movie.

282
00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:52,020
It's a really wicked movie.

283
00:09:52,220 --> 00:09:53,360
It's called The Parent Trap.

284
00:09:53,460 --> 00:09:57,440
If you haven't seen it I strongly recommend

285
00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:57,960
it.

286
00:09:59,540 --> 00:10:00,880
If some of you have seen it you

287
00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:02,320
know these two twins and you know this

288
00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:04,020
is the original version back sort of you

289
00:10:04,020 --> 00:10:06,060
know in the 1910s or however old I

290
00:10:06,060 --> 00:10:06,540
was then.

291
00:10:07,980 --> 00:10:10,840
And I can still hear the music that

292
00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,240
was on in the movie theater when I

293
00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:14,720
walked in on that Sunday afternoon.

294
00:10:14,900 --> 00:10:16,120
They were playing for those of you who

295
00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:18,040
are musical they were playing a baby elephant

296
00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,200
walk and I remember going and man did

297
00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:22,080
I enjoy this movie.

298
00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:24,020
Now of course I was kind of shrewd

299
00:10:24,020 --> 00:10:25,520
because I told them I was going swimming

300
00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:27,180
so I'd actually brought the swimsuit into the

301
00:10:27,180 --> 00:10:27,760
theater with me.

302
00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:30,240
And at the end of the movie I

303
00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,380
went into the bathroom and I soaked my

304
00:10:33,380 --> 00:10:36,000
swimsuit and splashed water on my towel and

305
00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,160
then cycled home and I hung up my

306
00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:39,740
swimsuit on the line to dry.

307
00:10:40,900 --> 00:10:43,000
Now I really deserved an Oscar.

308
00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:47,160
It was a fantastic performance but there was

309
00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:47,660
a problem.

310
00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:49,520
You see I hadn't reckoned on what the

311
00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:50,620
Holy Spirit might do.

312
00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:52,800
Now that night I was in my bedroom

313
00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:54,840
and this is how sort of schizophrenic you

314
00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:55,280
can be.

315
00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:57,400
You know I might even have been reading

316
00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:57,900
my Bible.

317
00:10:58,040 --> 00:10:58,600
I have no idea.

318
00:10:58,700 --> 00:11:00,480
You know I was a good kid basically.

319
00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:03,100
And so I'm in my room and my

320
00:11:03,100 --> 00:11:05,960
mom comes in and she has the sort

321
00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,340
of look that only mothers can have.

322
00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,240
You guys are young enough to sort of

323
00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:12,160
picture what I mean.

324
00:11:12,860 --> 00:11:15,100
And she looks at me and she says

325
00:11:15,100 --> 00:11:17,360
she says Tony this is going to sound

326
00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:19,220
really strange but this afternoon when you went

327
00:11:19,220 --> 00:11:21,740
out to go swimming she said I went

328
00:11:21,740 --> 00:11:24,400
to visit a friend and she described the

329
00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:25,000
part of town.

330
00:11:25,660 --> 00:11:28,220
And she said I drove through downtown and

331
00:11:28,220 --> 00:11:30,060
when she said downtown my heart's starting to

332
00:11:30,060 --> 00:11:30,740
go pitter patter.

333
00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,180
And she said I drove past this and

334
00:11:35,180 --> 00:11:37,140
she named the movie theater I was in

335
00:11:37,140 --> 00:11:39,040
and now my heart is really going.

336
00:11:40,060 --> 00:11:41,680
And she said I don't know what to

337
00:11:41,680 --> 00:11:43,180
make of this but I felt when I

338
00:11:43,180 --> 00:11:45,420
drove past that building the Holy Spirit say

339
00:11:45,420 --> 00:11:47,380
to me that you were in there.

340
00:11:49,860 --> 00:11:51,200
Whoa what do you do?

341
00:11:52,820 --> 00:11:55,120
I mean everybody needs a mother like that.

342
00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:00,120
So I mean what can you do when

343
00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:01,340
you're you're caught red-handed.

344
00:12:01,540 --> 00:12:02,980
So you know I had to confess and

345
00:12:02,980 --> 00:12:05,180
put it right and you know all this

346
00:12:05,180 --> 00:12:05,760
sort of stuff.

347
00:12:06,460 --> 00:12:07,840
But do you know what it told me?

348
00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,200
It told me there was a God who

349
00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:15,620
noticed when 14-year-old Tony snuck out

350
00:12:15,620 --> 00:12:17,260
and went to movies on a Sunday afternoon.

351
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:19,480
I don't think the issue had anything to

352
00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:21,060
do about sneaking out and going to movies.

353
00:12:21,180 --> 00:12:22,920
It had everything to do with respect and

354
00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,440
obedience to parents and all of that type

355
00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:25,840
of thing.

356
00:12:26,100 --> 00:12:29,520
But it said to me that God knew

357
00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:30,620
who I was.

358
00:12:31,300 --> 00:12:32,840
It was maybe a year or two later

359
00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,060
I was coming up to the beginning of

360
00:12:35,060 --> 00:12:37,900
my junior year at high school and I

361
00:12:37,900 --> 00:12:40,100
fell seriously ill with hepatitis.

362
00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,640
Now over here hepatitis is not usually a

363
00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,140
desperately serious condition at least hepatitis A.

364
00:12:47,060 --> 00:12:51,280
But in Taiwan it's probably the leading cause

365
00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:51,740
of death.

366
00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,280
Certainly it leads very frequently to cancer of

367
00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:57,300
the liver and that is the primary form

368
00:12:57,300 --> 00:12:58,560
of cancer that you see out in the

369
00:12:58,560 --> 00:12:58,980
far east.

370
00:12:58,980 --> 00:13:01,840
And I knew that people we'd actually just

371
00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,400
had a missionary friend who had been recuperating

372
00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,040
in our house who'd been ill for over

373
00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:06,680
a year.

374
00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:09,280
And so when my dad came in that

375
00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:11,140
day and told me I had hepatitis you

376
00:13:11,140 --> 00:13:14,180
know my little 11th grade world fell fell

377
00:13:14,180 --> 00:13:14,560
apart.

378
00:13:14,820 --> 00:13:16,040
I was going to be captain of the

379
00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:16,720
soccer team.

380
00:13:17,220 --> 00:13:18,340
You know I was planning to be elected

381
00:13:18,340 --> 00:13:20,120
you know president of our class.

382
00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:22,100
All the things that are so important to

383
00:13:22,100 --> 00:13:22,880
you at that age.

384
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:24,840
And all of a sudden it all crumbled

385
00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:26,860
because this was just two weeks before school

386
00:13:26,860 --> 00:13:28,480
and I knew I wasn't going to get

387
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:29,240
back to school.

388
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,020
And over the next few days I really

389
00:13:33,020 --> 00:13:34,680
did become seriously ill.

390
00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:35,780
Deeply jaundiced.

391
00:13:36,380 --> 00:13:38,540
I was much more of a sort of

392
00:13:38,540 --> 00:13:39,980
skin and bones in those days than I

393
00:13:39,980 --> 00:13:40,520
am now.

394
00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,160
But what little weight I had was falling

395
00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:44,700
off me dangerously fast.

396
00:13:45,380 --> 00:13:46,400
Dad was worried about me.

397
00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,500
The hospitals weren't very good in Taiwan in

398
00:13:48,500 --> 00:13:49,040
those days.

399
00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,200
So he began feeding me intravenously at home.

400
00:13:52,680 --> 00:13:54,780
Set up the intravenous drip and all that

401
00:13:54,780 --> 00:13:56,360
sort of stuff so that they were getting

402
00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:57,680
some nourishment into me.

403
00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:01,640
And you know the sort of five or

404
00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:03,340
six days there as I fell ill with

405
00:14:03,340 --> 00:14:05,140
hepatitis are pretty much a blur in my

406
00:14:05,140 --> 00:14:05,360
mind.

407
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,760
I just remember all the time vomiting vomiting

408
00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:09,440
and just feeling terrible.

409
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:11,500
It all began on a Saturday afternoon.

410
00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:14,720
By the Wednesday everything I've described to you

411
00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:15,060
had happened.

412
00:14:15,180 --> 00:14:16,840
I was losing weight dangerously quickly.

413
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:18,060
They had begun feeding me.

414
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:19,780
I really was sort of semi in and

415
00:14:19,780 --> 00:14:21,760
out of fever and delirium all the time.

416
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:25,280
I remember on Wednesday night mom and actually

417
00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:27,780
that same friend that she was going to

418
00:14:27,780 --> 00:14:30,260
visit that afternoon of the previous incident.

419
00:14:30,380 --> 00:14:31,480
This lady's name was Pearl.

420
00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,220
I remember mom and Pearl coming in to

421
00:14:35,220 --> 00:14:35,860
the bedroom.

422
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,440
Actually I'd taken over their bedroom because there

423
00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:39,940
was more space there and they'd put me

424
00:14:39,940 --> 00:14:40,380
in there.

425
00:14:40,900 --> 00:14:43,960
And I remember her coming in and pulling

426
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,560
out the Bible and saying that she and

427
00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:48,680
Pearl had been at a prayer meeting and

428
00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:50,660
that there were people all over town that

429
00:14:50,660 --> 00:14:52,240
night who were praying for me.

430
00:14:53,420 --> 00:14:55,720
And they opened their Bible to Mark chapter

431
00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,920
16 and they read to me these signs

432
00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,060
will follow those who believe.

433
00:15:02,140 --> 00:15:03,680
And one of the signs that they read

434
00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:05,540
was that they'll lay hands on the sick

435
00:15:05,540 --> 00:15:06,820
and they'll recover.

436
00:15:07,740 --> 00:15:09,100
And they asked me if they could pray

437
00:15:09,100 --> 00:15:09,640
for me.

438
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,200
Well to be honest I felt so sick

439
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:14,460
I didn't mind what they did.

440
00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,300
So there was absolutely nothing of me that

441
00:15:17,300 --> 00:15:20,320
was involved in anything that might have happened.

442
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,100
But they prayed for me just very simply

443
00:15:23,100 --> 00:15:25,200
asking Jesus to touch me and heal me.

444
00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,220
I don't remember feeling anything except that I

445
00:15:28,220 --> 00:15:30,500
did go almost immediately to sleep and I

446
00:15:30,500 --> 00:15:32,260
slept right through that night.

447
00:15:33,140 --> 00:15:34,560
And when I woke up in the morning

448
00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:38,740
the jaundice was completely gone and I was

449
00:15:38,740 --> 00:15:40,020
ravenously hungry.

450
00:15:41,580 --> 00:15:42,960
God had healed me.

451
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:48,420
Again it was just another indication that God

452
00:15:48,420 --> 00:15:53,200
notices individual people that he cared about Tony.

453
00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,000
Now I'd never really planned to do anything

454
00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:59,800
except become a doctor when I grew up.

455
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,060
That was you know I didn't want to

456
00:16:02,060 --> 00:16:05,020
be an airline pilot or you know president

457
00:16:05,020 --> 00:16:05,520
of the United...

458
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:07,100
well certainly not president of the United States.

459
00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:09,400
But you know any of these other things

460
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:10,560
that people get excited about.

461
00:16:10,860 --> 00:16:13,380
You know the only thing I'd ever really

462
00:16:13,380 --> 00:16:15,380
wanted to do was to be a doctor

463
00:16:15,380 --> 00:16:16,100
like my dad.

464
00:16:16,780 --> 00:16:19,220
And so it wasn't an issue that I

465
00:16:19,220 --> 00:16:21,200
particularly thought about or prayed about.

466
00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:22,500
In fact sometimes there in the back of

467
00:16:22,500 --> 00:16:24,100
my mind you know I'd realize that Christians

468
00:16:24,100 --> 00:16:25,700
are supposed to ask God what he wants.

469
00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:28,740
And so I justify what I was planning

470
00:16:28,740 --> 00:16:30,280
to do by saying well Lord you know

471
00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,500
I'm becoming a doctor that's sort of non

472
00:16:32,500 --> 00:16:34,140
-negotiable but if I have to I'll be

473
00:16:34,140 --> 00:16:34,900
a medical missionary.

474
00:16:36,260 --> 00:16:37,980
And that was about as far as my

475
00:16:37,980 --> 00:16:38,500
seeking...

476
00:16:38,500 --> 00:16:40,540
you know my seeking the Lord about what

477
00:16:40,540 --> 00:16:41,840
he wanted me to do had gone at

478
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:43,040
that stage in my life.

479
00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:45,580
And so a couple of years you know

480
00:16:45,580 --> 00:16:47,760
after the incidents I've told you about I

481
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:49,180
was on my way back to England to

482
00:16:49,180 --> 00:16:50,300
start medical school.

483
00:16:51,340 --> 00:16:53,640
But I didn't know that God was in

484
00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:56,400
the process of beginning to grab hold of

485
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,120
us and begin to transform our lives.

486
00:16:59,300 --> 00:17:01,040
I remember it was right at the beginning

487
00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,460
of my second year of medical school that

488
00:17:03,460 --> 00:17:04,260
I met Felicity.

489
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:05,500
It was...

490
00:17:05,500 --> 00:17:07,740
I won't confuse you with how the British

491
00:17:07,740 --> 00:17:10,119
system works but although it was her first

492
00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,680
year she came into the same classes that

493
00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:14,380
I came into at the beginning of my

494
00:17:14,380 --> 00:17:14,780
second year.

495
00:17:14,839 --> 00:17:16,380
That basically tells you how dumb I am

496
00:17:16,380 --> 00:17:16,819
doesn't it?

497
00:17:17,460 --> 00:17:19,359
Okay so you know she had already caught

498
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:20,640
up and she hadn't even been there.

499
00:17:25,780 --> 00:17:29,360
Anyway on her first day at school the

500
00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:31,680
first class that we had was a histology

501
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:32,240
class.

502
00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:33,620
Now I don't know if you know what

503
00:17:33,620 --> 00:17:34,500
histology is.

504
00:17:34,620 --> 00:17:38,480
That's looking at things under a microscope and

505
00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:40,440
you might think of it as pathology.

506
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:42,040
It's where you're looking at the tissues of

507
00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:43,580
the body under a microscope trying to figure

508
00:17:43,580 --> 00:17:44,780
out what's gone wrong with them.

509
00:17:45,620 --> 00:17:47,260
And it really helps if you're kind of

510
00:17:47,260 --> 00:17:49,180
artistically inclined because then you have some idea

511
00:17:49,180 --> 00:17:50,000
what you're looking at.

512
00:17:50,580 --> 00:17:52,440
But I look through these microscopes and I

513
00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:53,220
don't see anything.

514
00:17:53,580 --> 00:17:54,320
I mean nothing.

515
00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:58,960
I see blobs and I have no idea

516
00:17:58,960 --> 00:17:59,700
what they represent.

517
00:17:59,700 --> 00:18:02,240
So I'm very rapidly getting bored and I

518
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:02,660
turn around.

519
00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,040
There is this gorgeous apparition behind me.

520
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:08,080
The apparition's name was Felicity.

521
00:18:09,060 --> 00:18:10,820
What was even better was that she came

522
00:18:10,820 --> 00:18:12,740
up to me immediately following the class and

523
00:18:12,740 --> 00:18:13,760
said, are you Tony Dale?

524
00:18:13,860 --> 00:18:14,600
And I said yes.

525
00:18:15,140 --> 00:18:18,080
And she said well someone told me that

526
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,080
you were one of the few Christians here

527
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,440
at the medical school and I wanted to

528
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:23,340
get to know you.

529
00:18:23,540 --> 00:18:24,840
Well needless to say we got to know

530
00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:26,620
each other pretty well over the following years

531
00:18:26,620 --> 00:18:29,140
and you'll get to know her a little

532
00:18:29,140 --> 00:18:30,620
bit and some of you will be in

533
00:18:30,620 --> 00:18:32,040
the seminar that she'll be doing.

534
00:18:32,820 --> 00:18:34,160
She's the real brains of the family.

535
00:18:34,300 --> 00:18:35,700
If you want to hear anything of you

536
00:18:35,700 --> 00:18:37,540
know the real depth type stuff talk to

537
00:18:37,540 --> 00:18:37,780
her.

538
00:18:38,100 --> 00:18:40,940
If you're happy with the simple explanations then

539
00:18:40,940 --> 00:18:42,600
you can put up with me.

540
00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:44,620
I wish I was joking but that's the

541
00:18:44,620 --> 00:18:44,940
truth.

542
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,420
You know it's really intimidating when your wife's

543
00:18:47,420 --> 00:18:49,360
winning all these scholarships and you're just hoping

544
00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:51,820
you'll pass but you know that's the way

545
00:18:51,820 --> 00:18:53,040
sometimes it is in life.

546
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:59,760
So we began a spiritual adventure because she

547
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,760
had just begun to learn and explore something

548
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,640
of what God was beginning to unfold in

549
00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:06,760
England back in those days.

550
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:08,660
This was in 1968.

551
00:19:09,660 --> 00:19:11,140
Sorry for those of you who weren't even

552
00:19:11,140 --> 00:19:11,700
born then.

553
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:13,820
I apologize you know talking about things sort

554
00:19:13,820 --> 00:19:18,100
of before Christ but you know I'm trying

555
00:19:18,100 --> 00:19:20,480
to put this into a historical perspective because

556
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:22,180
it's going to make some difference on some

557
00:19:22,180 --> 00:19:23,440
of the stuff we're going to look at

558
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,140
in a moment and as we began to

559
00:19:26,140 --> 00:19:30,300
explore just how God was working into our

560
00:19:30,300 --> 00:19:30,960
generation.

561
00:19:31,620 --> 00:19:34,460
God began challenging me in all sorts of

562
00:19:34,460 --> 00:19:34,880
ways.

563
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:37,940
I'd already tasted for example in the story

564
00:19:37,940 --> 00:19:40,340
I told you of how he healed me

565
00:19:40,340 --> 00:19:43,560
but I hadn't even begun to think about

566
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:45,860
what implications that might have about what I

567
00:19:45,860 --> 00:19:47,740
do and the fact that I was going

568
00:19:47,740 --> 00:19:48,460
into medicine.

569
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,660
I'd gone to visit a church.

570
00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:55,380
I guess it was a Pentecostal church.

571
00:19:55,460 --> 00:19:56,100
I'm not really sure.

572
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,720
They actually met in an accountant's office and

573
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,200
God was doing some good stuff there.

574
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:04,640
I knew the presence of God was there

575
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,580
in a very very real way and I

576
00:20:07,580 --> 00:20:09,620
heard that one of the guys who was

577
00:20:09,620 --> 00:20:11,280
taking a lead was doing a meeting down

578
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:13,120
in the west end of London and I

579
00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:14,360
was going to be free that night so

580
00:20:14,360 --> 00:20:18,400
I went down and while there at the

581
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:23,620
meeting again I watched God healing people and

582
00:20:23,620 --> 00:20:27,100
my skeptical eyes were trying to understand but

583
00:20:27,100 --> 00:20:29,500
I knew what I was seeing.

584
00:20:29,580 --> 00:20:31,120
Now the guy who was speaking at the

585
00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:32,880
front he didn't mean this seriously.

586
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:34,440
He literally meant it as a joke but

587
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:35,400
he's sort of laughing.

588
00:20:35,580 --> 00:20:37,280
He says I guess if there are any

589
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,060
doctors here tonight they'll be looking for a

590
00:20:39,060 --> 00:20:43,380
new job but you know sometimes God just

591
00:20:43,380 --> 00:20:47,040
hits you with something and I heard it

592
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:48,680
and it was like the Holy Spirit said

593
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:50,560
to me Tony you never asked me about

594
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:54,520
going to medical school and something began really

595
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:56,140
troubling me in my heart and I went

596
00:20:56,140 --> 00:20:56,940
home that night.

597
00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:58,640
In fact I went home.

598
00:20:58,780 --> 00:21:00,520
I'd gone to this meeting with a friend.

599
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,740
We went home by our by our party

600
00:21:02,740 --> 00:21:04,940
that some of the were throwing and we

601
00:21:04,940 --> 00:21:07,100
began telling all the nurses and others who

602
00:21:07,100 --> 00:21:08,600
were there about what we'd seen God doing

603
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:09,120
at this meeting.

604
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,460
It completely destroyed the party but we had

605
00:21:13,460 --> 00:21:14,180
a great time.

606
00:21:14,300 --> 00:21:15,360
It ended up with a great sort of

607
00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:16,880
prayer time and all sorts of good things

608
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,200
going on but I went to bed that

609
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,880
night with this deep unsettledness inside.

610
00:21:22,820 --> 00:21:25,060
Lord I know I've never asked and yet

611
00:21:25,060 --> 00:21:26,700
this is the only thing I've ever really

612
00:21:26,700 --> 00:21:27,460
wanted to do.

613
00:21:28,980 --> 00:21:30,840
In the morning I got up and I

614
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:32,580
just you know opened my Bible to the

615
00:21:32,580 --> 00:21:34,280
regular place for my quiet time.

616
00:21:34,380 --> 00:21:35,800
It was in the book of Micah chapter

617
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,720
2 and I must have read the first

618
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,740
few verses but I don't remember you know

619
00:21:41,740 --> 00:21:43,640
today I couldn't tell you what the first

620
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,540
nine verses are about but when I got

621
00:21:46,540 --> 00:21:48,800
to verse 10 again God just hit me.

622
00:21:49,780 --> 00:21:53,140
It says arise and go for this is

623
00:21:53,140 --> 00:21:55,700
no place for you to rest because of

624
00:21:55,700 --> 00:22:00,140
unweariness that will destroy the soul and I

625
00:22:00,140 --> 00:22:02,060
just knew he was telling me I had

626
00:22:02,060 --> 00:22:06,200
to leave medical school and and you know

627
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,180
all over again the way the Holy Spirit

628
00:22:09,180 --> 00:22:11,800
begins to shape any of us in our

629
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:12,240
character.

630
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,180
God was working on my life to see

631
00:22:14,180 --> 00:22:15,480
if I was willing to be obedient.

632
00:22:16,660 --> 00:22:18,100
I'd love to tell you that you know

633
00:22:18,100 --> 00:22:19,600
I got up that day and said thank

634
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:21,600
you Lord and you know left the medical

635
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:21,840
school.

636
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:22,260
I didn't.

637
00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:25,240
I struggled really deeply over that question for

638
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,060
the next almost nine months for the rest

639
00:22:28,060 --> 00:22:33,040
of that academic year but finally I knew

640
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,040
that I had to obey the Lord and

641
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:35,820
I had to leave.

642
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:38,660
Now it's a completely different story to tell

643
00:22:38,660 --> 00:22:40,220
you why I happen now to be a

644
00:22:40,220 --> 00:22:44,240
doctor and we'll get to that okay but

645
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,340
that was probably the most difficult thing I've

646
00:22:47,340 --> 00:22:48,440
ever had to do in my life.

647
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:49,860
I remember when I went in to see

648
00:22:49,860 --> 00:22:52,440
the Dean and I told the Dean I

649
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,040
tried to explain to him what I felt

650
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:55,620
that you know God was saying to me

651
00:22:55,620 --> 00:22:57,020
that I had to leave the medical school.

652
00:22:57,120 --> 00:22:59,820
Now where we went at Barnes Hospital was

653
00:22:59,820 --> 00:23:02,140
a very snobby sort of place.

654
00:23:02,500 --> 00:23:03,480
Do you use the word snobby?

655
00:23:03,620 --> 00:23:05,040
You know sort of nose up in the

656
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,920
air you know whatever it is and I

657
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:09,760
mean just to give you a perspective on

658
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,660
history I think you guys became a country

659
00:23:13,660 --> 00:23:14,600
in 1776.

660
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:15,400
Is that right?

661
00:23:15,740 --> 00:23:16,620
Am I getting that right?

662
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,340
There is a rebellious streak in this room.

663
00:23:19,380 --> 00:23:19,900
Is that true?

664
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:22,840
No I take it all back you know.

665
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,120
Well the hospital that we trained at was

666
00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:33,960
founded in 1123 by monks on their way

667
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,440
providing a resting place for people who are

668
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:40,200
on their way to the crusades and so

669
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:41,660
you know this is the sort of place

670
00:23:41,660 --> 00:23:45,000
steeped in history I've never heard from that

671
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,060
day or to this of anyone who quit

672
00:23:47,060 --> 00:23:48,460
in the middle that they ever let go

673
00:23:48,460 --> 00:23:48,860
back.

674
00:23:49,220 --> 00:23:50,920
So when I quit I knew it was

675
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,180
keeps and went down to Bible school spent

676
00:23:53,180 --> 00:23:55,040
a couple of years you know getting more

677
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,740
training in the word and just the Lord

678
00:23:57,740 --> 00:24:00,000
shaping me getting involved.

679
00:24:00,220 --> 00:24:02,620
I supported myself through school by working in

680
00:24:02,620 --> 00:24:06,140
a pharmacy washing bottles and you have no

681
00:24:06,140 --> 00:24:08,080
idea how it hurts every day to be

682
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,820
in a hospital when you were training at

683
00:24:10,820 --> 00:24:12,760
you know one of the most prestigious medical

684
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:14,660
schools in the country and here are all

685
00:24:14,660 --> 00:24:16,800
the doctors wandering around in their white coats

686
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,300
and you're the nobody who works in the

687
00:24:19,300 --> 00:24:21,540
back of the hospital pharmacy washing bottles.

688
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:24,720
But God uses that.

689
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:25,920
God shapes you.

690
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,400
Something begins to seep into your life.

691
00:24:28,540 --> 00:24:31,200
It's like the verses I was reading there

692
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,580
in Romans 15 where Paul says I can

693
00:24:33,580 --> 00:24:36,560
only share with you basically what I've experienced

694
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,360
myself because if we're going to earth in

695
00:24:39,360 --> 00:24:41,320
reality some of the things we're going to

696
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:42,840
think of and some of the things we're

697
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:44,280
going to talk about over the next two

698
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,700
to three days are going to be huge

699
00:24:46,700 --> 00:24:47,440
in their suite.

700
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,660
We believe that God is doing something in

701
00:24:50,660 --> 00:24:54,700
this generation in this country that would the

702
00:24:54,700 --> 00:24:56,660
scriptural way be that when people hear about

703
00:24:56,660 --> 00:24:58,460
it it's going to make their ears tingle.

704
00:24:59,060 --> 00:25:01,120
You know that the potential of what is

705
00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:04,500
going on the possibility of really seeing Bible

706
00:25:04,500 --> 00:25:07,300
-believing Christians all over this country having their

707
00:25:07,300 --> 00:25:10,620
paradigm of what church is about totally transformed

708
00:25:10,620 --> 00:25:11,640
within a generation.

709
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,320
I believe that can happen and you're going

710
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:15,720
to hear some of why we believe it

711
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:17,800
can happen because of things we've seen God

712
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,400
do and so if God's preparing people for

713
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,880
something then just like a diamond in the

714
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:24,360
rough he's got to form them under the

715
00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:26,860
pressure and the pressures of the way God

716
00:25:26,860 --> 00:25:29,040
works is that he deals with all those

717
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,280
things that are priorities before him until he

718
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,360
can bring us to a place where we're

719
00:25:34,360 --> 00:25:38,140
honestly saying not just grudgingly but longingly out

720
00:25:38,140 --> 00:25:40,380
of our hearts that you know the only

721
00:25:40,380 --> 00:25:42,600
thing we can do is to seek first

722
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,560
the kingdom of God and his righteousness.

723
00:25:46,060 --> 00:25:48,860
I've been down at this Bible college I

724
00:25:48,860 --> 00:25:51,020
guess you'd call it Bible college we we

725
00:25:51,020 --> 00:25:53,060
met in a home it was a very

726
00:25:53,060 --> 00:25:54,540
nice home it was the home of Sir

727
00:25:54,540 --> 00:25:56,140
Tom and Lady Faith Lees.

728
00:25:56,820 --> 00:25:58,840
They got swept up in the good things

729
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:00,360
the Lord was doing in England in the

730
00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:02,840
60s and they opened up their home to

731
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,760
become a center for young people to be

732
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:05,140
trained.

733
00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:07,380
I was one of nine people who turned

734
00:26:07,380 --> 00:26:08,920
up on the first day of this new

735
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,480
Bible school and God did wonderful things I'd

736
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,180
love to tell you stories of those years

737
00:26:14,180 --> 00:26:15,640
but but there isn't time if we're going

738
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:17,580
to get into anything with any meat you

739
00:26:17,580 --> 00:26:19,200
know because this is just sort of travelogue

740
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,080
at the moment but I I hope it's

741
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,120
not boring you you know looking at other

742
00:26:24,120 --> 00:26:25,960
people's slides I mean doesn't it drive you

743
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,920
nuts so I you know if this if

744
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:30,540
you feel that way about this you have

745
00:26:30,540 --> 00:26:33,100
my full permission to walk out but if

746
00:26:33,100 --> 00:26:34,420
you do I'm going to catch your name

747
00:26:34,420 --> 00:26:37,400
I've done that okay so I was about

748
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,660
18 months maybe more maybe 21 months into

749
00:26:40,660 --> 00:26:44,100
this two-year Bible school course and really

750
00:26:44,100 --> 00:26:46,300
seriously beginning to say to the Lord Lord

751
00:26:46,300 --> 00:26:50,180
what should I be doing next now I

752
00:26:50,180 --> 00:26:53,020
don't know how you understand the Lord speaking

753
00:26:53,020 --> 00:26:56,740
to you I I don't know if I've

754
00:26:56,740 --> 00:27:00,920
ever really heard the Lord's voice but if

755
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:02,480
I've ever heard it it was on this

756
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,600
occasion I I was washing bottles in that

757
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,420
hospital pharmacy and just sort of thinking about

758
00:27:09,420 --> 00:27:12,040
what happens next knowing that it was only

759
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,120
about three months until I'd graduate and really

760
00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:17,100
needed to know what the Lord had for

761
00:27:17,100 --> 00:27:20,860
me and just as plain as day I

762
00:27:20,860 --> 00:27:23,080
heard you're to go back to medical school

763
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,280
I sort of like uh-uh now that's

764
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,380
me you know Lord I'm so I'm so

765
00:27:28,380 --> 00:27:31,560
sorry Lord I repent you know I I'm

766
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,180
sorry that that's still inside me you know

767
00:27:34,180 --> 00:27:36,040
Lord I've been trying to deal with this

768
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,000
stuff and but there was nothing I could

769
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,640
do to shake it I knew I'd heard

770
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:43,100
something I didn't know for sure it was

771
00:27:43,100 --> 00:27:46,860
God but I knew I'd heard something and

772
00:27:46,860 --> 00:27:49,320
so I said a couple of things that

773
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:53,220
I thought would be impossible the leader of

774
00:27:53,220 --> 00:27:56,160
the Bible school was just a very sort

775
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,460
of fiery a totally committed person who I

776
00:27:59,460 --> 00:28:02,480
knew would be very very opposed to any

777
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:04,880
idea of me going back and doing something

778
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:06,360
that tied up with the world if I

779
00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:08,820
can put it in those ways and so

780
00:28:08,820 --> 00:28:10,440
I said well Lord Lord if this is

781
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,760
really you then you've got to get Elmer

782
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,260
he was his first name the the president

783
00:28:16,260 --> 00:28:18,280
of the Bible school you've got to get

784
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,620
Elmer when I speak to him to say

785
00:28:21,620 --> 00:28:23,680
that that he would be willing to endorse

786
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,160
that this might be what the Lord wanted

787
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,520
for me now I said Lord if that

788
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:29,700
happens I'm going to speak to the medical

789
00:28:29,700 --> 00:28:32,780
school and they've not only got to let

790
00:28:32,780 --> 00:28:35,000
me come back but they've got to let

791
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,960
me come back with my scholarships because my

792
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,440
parents can't afford the money and they've got

793
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,240
to let me come back without having to

794
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,440
do any of the work again well I

795
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,380
went to see Elmer and he said I've

796
00:28:47,380 --> 00:28:50,000
been waiting for you to come he said

797
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,280
I've known for months that God was going

798
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:53,860
to take you back to medical school I'm

799
00:28:53,860 --> 00:28:57,460
so glad that finally you've heard him I'm

800
00:28:57,460 --> 00:29:00,820
thinking like wow you know and there's part

801
00:29:00,820 --> 00:29:02,360
of me hoping that this is really true

802
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:04,200
because you know it's still sort of in

803
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,580
there however much you've dealt with it it's

804
00:29:06,580 --> 00:29:08,460
still in there some of these desires because

805
00:29:08,460 --> 00:29:11,120
sometimes they're God-given desires it was something

806
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,840
that he had birthed into me okay but

807
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:15,540
I wanted to make quite sure that I

808
00:29:15,540 --> 00:29:19,480
wasn't missing his guidance and so I made

809
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,080
an arrangement to go back and see the

810
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,580
dean it was the same guy that I'd

811
00:29:23,580 --> 00:29:25,340
seen to explain that God had told me

812
00:29:25,340 --> 00:29:26,300
to left so I was trying to figure

813
00:29:26,300 --> 00:29:27,360
out how to tell him that God had

814
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,460
changed his mind you know it sort of

815
00:29:30,460 --> 00:29:31,620
leaves you with a bit of a dilemma

816
00:29:31,620 --> 00:29:36,440
theologically doesn't it and I get in there

817
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,420
and you know he looks very stern and

818
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,040
everybody's in three-piece suits including me you

819
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,500
know in those days I mean we're so

820
00:29:43,500 --> 00:29:46,460
casual now we had to wear suits and

821
00:29:46,460 --> 00:29:49,120
ties in the anatomy dissecting lab can you

822
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,400
believe that out of respect for the dead

823
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,560
that's what they told us as far as

824
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,380
I could see the only thing it did

825
00:29:56,380 --> 00:29:58,600
was mean your tie always stunk of formalin

826
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,560
but anyway that's life I apologize those of

827
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,400
you squeamish you know just forget these stories

828
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,260
okay now I'm sitting there with the dean

829
00:30:06,260 --> 00:30:08,480
and and he looks at me and he

830
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:09,820
he looked and he says well Dale he

831
00:30:09,820 --> 00:30:11,960
said uh I I can see you did

832
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:13,340
pretty well but you've been away for two

833
00:30:13,340 --> 00:30:17,720
years uh he said you know in two

834
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,700
years you've forgotten a lot of this but

835
00:30:20,700 --> 00:30:22,320
he said your your dad was here and

836
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,020
your and his father before him they were

837
00:30:24,020 --> 00:30:26,980
all here at this medical school he said

838
00:30:26,980 --> 00:30:29,880
we'd like to take you back but he

839
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:31,560
said I'm gonna have to ask you to

840
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,000
do the last year again and I'm thinking

841
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,660
but lord my condition was that if they

842
00:30:37,660 --> 00:30:39,660
accept me I don't have to do anything

843
00:30:39,660 --> 00:30:41,720
again so I sort of gulp and I

844
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:43,620
I look at him and I uh I

845
00:30:43,620 --> 00:30:46,340
say well sir uh do you remember your

846
00:30:46,340 --> 00:30:49,120
summer vacation between first year and second year

847
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,340
uh second mb which is a type of

848
00:30:51,340 --> 00:30:52,900
exam and and he looked at me and

849
00:30:52,900 --> 00:30:54,120
he said yeah and he's sort of smiling

850
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,900
uh and I said well sir did you

851
00:30:56,900 --> 00:30:58,580
forget most of what you learned in first

852
00:30:58,580 --> 00:31:01,060
year first mb in that summer and he

853
00:31:01,060 --> 00:31:03,460
laughed and he said yeah I did and

854
00:31:03,460 --> 00:31:04,580
he said and I said to him well

855
00:31:04,580 --> 00:31:06,200
look I'll study real hard for the next

856
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:07,780
three months before I come back but I've

857
00:31:07,780 --> 00:31:09,820
got to start exactly where I left off

858
00:31:09,820 --> 00:31:14,280
and he said okay that's a deal now

859
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,760
that was god doing something you know god

860
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,140
opens doors I I had no idea in

861
00:31:20,140 --> 00:31:22,220
those days what god was going to want

862
00:31:22,220 --> 00:31:23,420
to help me I have no idea that

863
00:31:23,420 --> 00:31:25,220
one day we'd be working with doctors and

864
00:31:25,220 --> 00:31:27,700
nurses all over the world and helping them

865
00:31:27,700 --> 00:31:29,100
learn how to move in the power of

866
00:31:29,100 --> 00:31:31,500
the holy spirit in their daily professional lives

867
00:31:31,500 --> 00:31:33,440
how to pray for your patients how to

868
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,680
cast out demons in the medical office how

869
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,220
to have the expectation that many would be

870
00:31:39,220 --> 00:31:42,500
coming to christ right within the professional context

871
00:31:42,500 --> 00:31:45,760
okay because we don't see the end from

872
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,900
the beginning but what god asks of us

873
00:31:48,900 --> 00:31:52,440
is a willingness to be obedient with each

874
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,680
step that he's asking us to take now

875
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,400
you probably notice I don't wear a watch

876
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,600
that's because in my experience all preachers preach

877
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,880
too long would you agree with me yeah

878
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:05,100
I see a lot of people nodding their

879
00:32:05,100 --> 00:32:06,800
heads and some of them are even preachers

880
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:08,840
so you know this is like tonight is

881
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:13,200
obviously honesty night man I don't know if

882
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,340
I can cope I haven't stood behind a

883
00:32:15,340 --> 00:32:20,360
pulpit in I mean it's almost ungodly okay

884
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,560
look how do you do this you hold

885
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,320
your notes you hold your glasses you hold

886
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,660
your bible I I really can't cope with

887
00:32:27,660 --> 00:32:29,240
it I if it doesn't work I'll go

888
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:33,820
back there but we're family together we're going

889
00:32:33,820 --> 00:32:36,620
to look at some thoughts and ideas together

890
00:32:37,500 --> 00:32:40,860
we're going to be exploring what would it

891
00:32:40,860 --> 00:32:45,980
take for god to transform his bride and

892
00:32:45,980 --> 00:32:50,200
I'm not talking about oh that's perfect but

893
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:54,840
I'm not going to burst into song thank

894
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:59,640
you so much that's wonderful what would it

895
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:01,600
take to turn the church around in this

896
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,300
country now we don't have time to argue

897
00:33:04,300 --> 00:33:06,360
all sorts of points of theology over the

898
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,120
next couple of days so you're going to

899
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:09,400
just have to take me the way I

900
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,240
am you don't have to agree with me

901
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,500
and you'll probably be right in fact people

902
00:33:14,500 --> 00:33:16,100
sometimes ask me what I think about a

903
00:33:16,100 --> 00:33:17,440
subject and I tell them well I can

904
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,520
tell you what I think right now but

905
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:20,780
you know by this time next year I

906
00:33:20,780 --> 00:33:22,500
may have changed my mind all over again

907
00:33:22,500 --> 00:33:25,600
so I'm afraid I'm not of the sort

908
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:30,260
who's very dogmatic but I'll try and explain

909
00:33:30,260 --> 00:33:34,660
things about our journey that lead us to

910
00:33:34,660 --> 00:33:38,980
believe that god can dramatically transform his people

911
00:33:38,980 --> 00:33:44,340
two years ago in February of the year

912
00:33:44,340 --> 00:33:46,880
2000 we began seeing reports on the news

913
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,020
of the floods that were happening in Mozambique

914
00:33:49,020 --> 00:33:50,920
I don't know if any of you remember

915
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,980
that Mozambique's down in southern Africa and was

916
00:33:53,980 --> 00:33:57,040
hit by terrible terrible floods they had three

917
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,160
sort of hurricanes or typhoons whatever you might

918
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,400
call them in a row and all this

919
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,100
water from South Africa and from Zimbabwe and

920
00:34:04,100 --> 00:34:06,100
that hit their own land it all tunnels

921
00:34:06,100 --> 00:34:09,020
through a few rivers through Zimbabwe and just

922
00:34:09,020 --> 00:34:11,000
over a very very short period of time

923
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,560
almost 50 percent of the country was underwater

924
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,719
and some friends of ours a couple called

925
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,880
Roland and Heidi Baker run an orphanage out

926
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,360
there in the just outside the capital city

927
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,080
of Maputo and we got an email just

928
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:31,239
describing the desperate plight of the nation and

929
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,540
of their orphans they look after about a

930
00:34:33,540 --> 00:34:36,440
thousand orphans one of their orphanages had been

931
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:41,520
totally buried underwater the other one was waterlogged

932
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:45,360
but functioning functioning everywhere they're all over the

933
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,400
country there there were people in imminent danger

934
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,199
of starvation and an email went out as

935
00:34:51,199 --> 00:34:53,940
a cry for help and I looked at

936
00:34:53,940 --> 00:34:56,240
it and I thought well I am a

937
00:34:56,240 --> 00:34:59,440
doctor I could do something and so over

938
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:00,820
a period of a couple of weeks we

939
00:35:00,820 --> 00:35:04,120
just completely cleared the decks and I went

940
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,260
out there to see what I could do

941
00:35:06,260 --> 00:35:09,400
to help and you know the United Nations

942
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,260
was taking any and all of the help

943
00:35:11,260 --> 00:35:12,740
it could get they they would fly us

944
00:35:12,740 --> 00:35:15,720
into remote villages and you know we'd fly

945
00:35:15,720 --> 00:35:17,460
out for a day we would treat as

946
00:35:17,460 --> 00:35:19,220
many patients as we could we'd dump as

947
00:35:19,220 --> 00:35:20,860
much food as we could we'd come back

948
00:35:20,860 --> 00:35:24,960
and over the course of those days we

949
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:29,060
began to see God doing incredible things we'd

950
00:35:29,060 --> 00:35:30,840
go into a village where these people have

951
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:35,860
nothing I mean nothing you'd have to know

952
00:35:35,860 --> 00:35:37,980
a little about Mozambique it's had 20 years

953
00:35:37,980 --> 00:35:40,740
of civil war when it got its independence

954
00:35:40,740 --> 00:35:42,540
from Portugal I think it was back in

955
00:35:42,540 --> 00:35:46,520
about 1974 something like that it came under

956
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,440
communist leadership they were even worse than the

957
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,060
Portuguese were they totally raped the country and

958
00:35:54,060 --> 00:35:56,460
destroyed it in all sorts of ways civil

959
00:35:56,460 --> 00:35:59,860
war broke out that devastated the country so

960
00:35:59,860 --> 00:36:03,000
by the time 1995-96 came along that

961
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,580
was the poorest nation on earth they had

962
00:36:05,580 --> 00:36:09,320
nothing and then you have these floods and

963
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,220
we'd go in I take a team of

964
00:36:11,220 --> 00:36:13,640
people with me from the orphanage and we

965
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,260
do medical work and then perhaps during the

966
00:36:16,260 --> 00:36:20,660
lunchtime we'd share the gospel and the people

967
00:36:20,660 --> 00:36:23,160
you know were gathered anywhere where high ground

968
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,840
was so there were large concentrations of people

969
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:27,780
and you know during the breaks that we

970
00:36:27,780 --> 00:36:29,660
were taking for the medical workers we'd share

971
00:36:29,660 --> 00:36:33,060
the gospel we'd explain that we were there

972
00:36:33,060 --> 00:36:35,780
because Jesus loved them and in very simple

973
00:36:35,780 --> 00:36:39,300
ways try and communicate the Christian faith and

974
00:36:39,300 --> 00:36:41,960
then we'd ask is there anybody who hearing

975
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,360
about this feels that they understand enough that

976
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,300
they're ready to surrender their life to this

977
00:36:48,300 --> 00:36:50,820
God to Jesus who's the Son of the

978
00:36:50,820 --> 00:36:54,100
Living God and everybody would put their hand

979
00:36:54,100 --> 00:36:57,020
up and so I'd say you know obviously

980
00:36:57,020 --> 00:36:59,280
through an interpreter no no you don't understand

981
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,540
and I'd explain again that that this means

982
00:37:02,540 --> 00:37:05,240
a complete break from your old life that

983
00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:06,880
you have to give up the witch doctors

984
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:08,680
you have to give up the worship of

985
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:10,900
spirits and trees you you have to give

986
00:37:10,900 --> 00:37:12,920
up all of these old things and that

987
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,160
you completely turn around and give your life

988
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,360
to this this God that you're only just

989
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,000
beginning to understand about who's going to ask

990
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,460
you to follow him whatever the cost and

991
00:37:24,460 --> 00:37:26,480
I'd say now if you understand clearly what

992
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,540
I'm saying are you ready to give your

993
00:37:28,540 --> 00:37:32,400
life to Jesus and again everybody would put

994
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,320
their hand up and this would happen in

995
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:39,000
village after village after village and you could

996
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,100
be in a place maybe 48 hours and

997
00:37:41,100 --> 00:37:43,480
you could leave and there'd be a hundred

998
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:48,320
maybe 60 maybe 150 people who at some

999
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,520
measure at least have begun to respond to

1000
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,520
the word of God I remember those evenings

1001
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,900
sitting under the usually in the center of

1002
00:37:55,900 --> 00:37:58,680
the village there'd be a big tree and

1003
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:02,420
you'd have church under the tree oh and

1004
00:38:02,420 --> 00:38:04,140
the presence of God and the way the

1005
00:38:04,140 --> 00:38:07,180
Africans sing and dance is just so amazing

1006
00:38:07,180 --> 00:38:11,060
and you would know that God was birthing

1007
00:38:11,060 --> 00:38:16,280
churches in days and your heart begins to

1008
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:21,660
cry out Lord couldn't it happen here Roland

1009
00:38:21,660 --> 00:38:23,720
and Heidi in the last email that they

1010
00:38:23,720 --> 00:38:27,160
sent us said that over the last three

1011
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,940
years now as best they can count and

1012
00:38:30,940 --> 00:38:33,200
they have no idea whether this is accurate

1013
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,380
or not but by their definition of a

1014
00:38:36,380 --> 00:38:38,640
church which they define I'm not saying this

1015
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,380
is biblical or whatever I'm just telling you

1016
00:38:40,380 --> 00:38:43,240
what they use they define a church as

1017
00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:46,460
when 50 believers are gathered together but by

1018
00:38:46,460 --> 00:38:48,540
the best estimates they have there are now

1019
00:38:48,540 --> 00:38:51,960
over 3,000 churches that they're involved with

1020
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:57,680
in Mozambique that's God now that's God that's

1021
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,860
God's time for a nation here's a nation

1022
00:39:00,860 --> 00:39:03,460
that has hit rock bottom where the spirit

1023
00:39:03,460 --> 00:39:05,780
of God is sweeping across it in such

1024
00:39:05,780 --> 00:39:08,740
incredible ways it'd be fun to tell you

1025
00:39:08,740 --> 00:39:10,880
more stories but but I'm just trying to

1026
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,320
begin to to raise our concept of what

1027
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,940
can happen and then we're going to look

1028
00:39:16,940 --> 00:39:18,680
in a little bit of depth at what

1029
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,060
did happen in a country and we're going

1030
00:39:22,060 --> 00:39:25,160
to try and draw some principles before tomorrow

1031
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,080
we're going to start looking into the scriptures

1032
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,100
and ask whether we really have a biblical

1033
00:39:30,100 --> 00:39:33,580
foundation for daring to ask God to do

1034
00:39:33,580 --> 00:39:38,840
something dramatic in our generation a few months

1035
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,140
after that first incident Felicity and I went

1036
00:39:41,140 --> 00:39:43,100
back out there this time with two of

1037
00:39:43,100 --> 00:39:45,760
the kids and we just saw the same

1038
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,320
thing again day by day the the power

1039
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,900
of God moving a people so hungry we'd

1040
00:39:52,900 --> 00:39:55,140
go into a place maybe for 24 hours

1041
00:39:55,140 --> 00:39:58,360
maybe for 48 72 hours by the time

1042
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:02,000
we leave there's church there Roland and Heidi

1043
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:03,640
would follow up with people who are going

1044
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:05,840
through their bible school to to help out

1045
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:10,480
but something could be established every day that

1046
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:14,800
you went somewhere can that only happen in

1047
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:18,500
a devastated country like Mozambique it was later

1048
00:40:18,500 --> 00:40:20,020
that year it was the October of that

1049
00:40:20,020 --> 00:40:21,980
year that we first went out to India

1050
00:40:21,980 --> 00:40:30,060
so it was lovely hearing you share a

1051
00:40:30,610 --> 00:40:34,180
in the center of the country and we

1052
00:40:34,180 --> 00:40:37,020
began seeing something quite extraordinary they'd invited us

1053
00:40:37,020 --> 00:40:38,760
to go out there to to teach about

1054
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:42,760
home church you know I hope this isn't

1055
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:44,760
a problem to anyone I actually struggle with

1056
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:46,800
the term home church now maybe that that

1057
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,020
sounds weird coming from you know the supposed

1058
00:40:49,020 --> 00:40:51,540
editor of house to house let me confess

1059
00:40:51,540 --> 00:40:53,920
they just put that there because I got

1060
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,060
doctor after my name you know the real

1061
00:40:56,060 --> 00:40:57,480
guys who do the work of people like

1062
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:01,360
my son and my wife and I can

1063
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,840
barely spell I mean thank God for a

1064
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,660
spell check on the computer so you know

1065
00:41:06,660 --> 00:41:08,240
if you want to know who really edits

1066
00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:09,940
it just talk to us privately and we'll

1067
00:41:09,940 --> 00:41:12,540
we'll help you figure that out but I

1068
00:41:12,540 --> 00:41:15,160
struggle sometimes with the term house church struggle

1069
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,440
even more with the term biblical house church

1070
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,920
because it kind of implies that everything else

1071
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:23,380
is unbiblical and I'm very very cautious about

1072
00:41:23,380 --> 00:41:25,560
us saying that about other people in the

1073
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:27,760
body of Christ because you see in Mozambique

1074
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,140
we had under the tree church in India

1075
00:41:30,140 --> 00:41:33,800
we had mainly in small hut church I've

1076
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:39,540
been in amazing huge catholic cathedral church and

1077
00:41:39,540 --> 00:41:42,720
seen God touching people by their hundreds and

1078
00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:46,140
we need hearts that that so love the

1079
00:41:46,140 --> 00:41:48,420
bride of Christ that we're never gonna bash

1080
00:41:48,420 --> 00:41:51,980
her we need the sort of spirit that

1081
00:41:51,980 --> 00:41:55,240
while we long for something more authentic more

1082
00:41:55,240 --> 00:41:59,040
biblical is going to be very very cautious

1083
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,600
before implying that what other people do with

1084
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,380
the light they have is somehow of lesser

1085
00:42:05,380 --> 00:42:08,240
value than what we do the body of

1086
00:42:08,240 --> 00:42:10,300
Christ doesn't need to be tearing itself apart

1087
00:42:10,300 --> 00:42:13,680
it needs to be building itself up if

1088
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,080
you're a prophet then live within 1 corinthians

1089
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:18,340
14 verse 3 which says that when you

1090
00:42:18,340 --> 00:42:21,860
prophesy you edify you exhort and you encourage

1091
00:42:21,860 --> 00:42:24,520
leave the tearing down to the jeremiah's God

1092
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:26,020
will raise some of them up we need

1093
00:42:26,020 --> 00:42:28,500
them but in the normal course of events

1094
00:42:28,500 --> 00:42:30,680
our job is to build up so anyway

1095
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,960
in India where we're there and we're supposedly

1096
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:37,640
teaching about house church you know it's scary

1097
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,200
being asked to teach about stuff do you

1098
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,600
have any idea what it's like being considered

1099
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:44,480
an expert on something on which you know

1100
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,940
nothing you know i i used to experience

1101
00:42:47,940 --> 00:42:50,120
that all the time in my medical office

1102
00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:52,480
now you might think oh that's that's scary

1103
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:54,800
no it's better to know what you don't

1104
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,420
know right i i had a whole bunch

1105
00:42:57,420 --> 00:42:59,360
of books on the shelf behind me and

1106
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,740
i knew where to find stuff and i

1107
00:43:02,740 --> 00:43:04,760
was always saying to my patients man do

1108
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:06,780
you think anybody could know everything in here

1109
00:43:06,780 --> 00:43:08,620
and they'd say no way i'd say you're

1110
00:43:08,620 --> 00:43:09,980
right and that's why i'm gonna pull this

1111
00:43:09,980 --> 00:43:12,120
book off the shelf let's try and figure

1112
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:16,300
out what's going on here in fact what

1113
00:43:16,300 --> 00:43:17,820
i did even more than that in the

1114
00:43:17,820 --> 00:43:19,960
drawer of the desk i kept my bible

1115
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,640
and very often i'd point at all these

1116
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:24,780
books and i'd say oh you know there's

1117
00:43:24,780 --> 00:43:27,760
so much i've learned in these books but

1118
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:29,360
then i'd pull out the drawer but i'd

1119
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:31,600
say oh you know in this book i

1120
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:33,500
found more wisdom than in all of those

1121
00:43:33,500 --> 00:43:35,660
put together and we'd start talking about what's

1122
00:43:35,660 --> 00:43:37,760
going on in their lives and it's just

1123
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,080
so precious seeing how God will touch people

1124
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,080
anyway i'm digressing we're in india aren't we

1125
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,440
i'm i'm hopeless i apologize but okay we're

1126
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,240
in india and we're teaching about house church

1127
00:43:49,240 --> 00:43:53,740
and it's really disturbing because people are believing

1128
00:43:53,740 --> 00:43:55,600
what we're telling them and by the time

1129
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:58,580
we're getting a week down the road we're

1130
00:43:58,580 --> 00:44:01,000
hearing stories of people back at where the

1131
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:04,200
first seminars were held who are going out

1132
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,720
to neighboring villages and are starting churches they

1133
00:44:07,720 --> 00:44:09,900
invited us to talk about rapid church growth

1134
00:44:09,900 --> 00:44:12,660
we had experienced at that point really rapid

1135
00:44:12,660 --> 00:44:14,520
growth in austin we'd grown from one to

1136
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:16,200
three in a period of about two years

1137
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:18,940
okay i mean you know like this is

1138
00:44:18,940 --> 00:44:23,600
impressive within a month of getting back from

1139
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,760
india we'd had emails or messages one way

1140
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,360
or another from people telling us about 40

1141
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,000
different churches i think we we counted up

1142
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,940
that had been started we were beginning to

1143
00:44:34,940 --> 00:44:37,720
hear stories from other sources many of you

1144
00:44:37,720 --> 00:44:39,300
may have read a little booklet called church

1145
00:44:39,300 --> 00:44:42,440
planting movement put out by the southern baptists

1146
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:46,000
and there were stories in there of ordinary

1147
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:50,820
housewife starting 50 churches in a year and

1148
00:44:50,820 --> 00:44:52,840
i'm thinking lord you know if i could

1149
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:56,200
even count 50 people i'd be grateful but

1150
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,180
50 churches i mean this is incredible we

1151
00:44:59,180 --> 00:45:02,220
you know we heard about someone who in

1152
00:45:02,220 --> 00:45:06,160
the first year following his conversion was involved

1153
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:10,260
in starting 42 churches and something in our

1154
00:45:10,260 --> 00:45:14,120
hearts is saying lord lord is this only

1155
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:17,680
over there wherever over there is you know

1156
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:19,660
i think it's in deuteronomy maybe it's chapter

1157
00:45:19,660 --> 00:45:21,940
eight or wherever it comes but it says

1158
00:45:21,940 --> 00:45:25,380
the word of faith it's not so far

1159
00:45:25,380 --> 00:45:27,680
away over a mountain or the other side

1160
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:28,720
of the sea that you have to say

1161
00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:30,120
i have to go over there to get

1162
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:32,480
it no the word of faith is near

1163
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:34,900
you even in your heart and in your

1164
00:45:34,900 --> 00:45:36,920
mouth and it's quoted again in romans 10

1165
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:39,160
isn't it you see god is trying to

1166
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,400
to stir us up to dare to believe

1167
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:44,480
that he could begin to do something of

1168
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:46,520
significance over here and i want to explain

1169
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:49,440
what i mean by significant i know it's

1170
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:54,340
significant when your friend comes to jesus but

1171
00:45:54,340 --> 00:45:58,480
it does not transform your community or your

1172
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:02,500
city and it leaves this country lost and

1173
00:46:02,500 --> 00:46:06,640
going further and further downhill and i think

1174
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:08,560
we need to raise our sights up in

1175
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:11,340
such a way that no more we we

1176
00:46:11,340 --> 00:46:13,940
content with the idea that that somehow what

1177
00:46:13,940 --> 00:46:16,240
we have is it's so good praise god

1178
00:46:16,240 --> 00:46:17,880
the presence of the holy spirit in our

1179
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,380
times is so real our sharing is so

1180
00:46:20,380 --> 00:46:22,680
precious the fellowship is so deep you know

1181
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:24,600
the ministry of the word is so excellent

1182
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,760
that somehow we can be satisfied with that

1183
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:31,800
while we still have basically zero impact upon

1184
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:33,420
the nation in which god has put us

1185
00:46:33,420 --> 00:46:36,660
and for which we share responsibility i don't

1186
00:46:36,660 --> 00:46:38,180
know if any of you ever look at

1187
00:46:38,180 --> 00:46:41,780
george barnard's website he's a christian researcher in

1188
00:46:41,780 --> 00:46:47,100
this country uh his website www.barnard.org

1189
00:46:47,100 --> 00:46:51,020
b-a-r-n-a.org but he

1190
00:46:51,020 --> 00:46:53,440
puts all sorts of statistical stuff up there

1191
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:57,500
i am told i can't verify this but

1192
00:46:57,500 --> 00:46:59,840
my understanding is that he has on there

1193
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:04,940
that there is not one county in the

1194
00:47:04,940 --> 00:47:08,340
whole of the united states where the body

1195
00:47:08,340 --> 00:47:14,040
of christ is experiencing positive numerical growth that

1196
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:17,780
there is not one county you say what

1197
00:47:17,780 --> 00:47:22,520
about this mega church basically growing by the

1198
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,000
other christians going over there from other places

1199
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,140
are there some places that are seeing hundreds

1200
00:47:27,140 --> 00:47:29,100
come to christ yes but it's a drop

1201
00:47:29,100 --> 00:47:32,280
in the bucket of the need and yet

1202
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:33,600
we read a poll we're going to look

1203
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,680
at this tomorrow but when he had spent

1204
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:41,120
some time and so all asia was reached

1205
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:46,760
with the gospel we've become we've become content

1206
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:50,600
we've been squeezed into our box over the

1207
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:54,000
last particularly over the last generation particularly because

1208
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,960
of the increasing sort of decadence and lack

1209
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:01,040
of relevance of the church at large including

1210
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:05,160
our churches okay don't start thinking everybody else

1211
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:08,500
start thinking us the the basic irrelevance of

1212
00:48:08,500 --> 00:48:10,400
what we do to society in such a

1213
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:12,580
way that we get conditioned to thinking that

1214
00:48:12,580 --> 00:48:13,940
as long as we have a good praise

1215
00:48:13,940 --> 00:48:15,460
and worship time or get into the word

1216
00:48:15,460 --> 00:48:19,480
or occasionally someone gets saved that that we're

1217
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:23,660
somehow fulfilling our calling in god and yet

1218
00:48:23,660 --> 00:48:25,620
you could go back as far as uh

1219
00:48:25,620 --> 00:48:30,320
excuse me exodus chapter 19 just before the

1220
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:32,460
giving of the 10 commandments where where god

1221
00:48:32,460 --> 00:48:34,620
speaking through moses to the people says don't

1222
00:48:34,620 --> 00:48:37,280
you understand that you were called to be

1223
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:39,960
a kingdom of priests unto god a holy

1224
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:44,960
nation god's intention way back then was that

1225
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:48,140
his priestly people would somehow display the glory

1226
00:48:48,140 --> 00:48:52,960
of god to the world and you know

1227
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,300
at least in this country what we're doing

1228
00:48:56,300 --> 00:48:59,000
isn't cutting it at the moment and i

1229
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:01,240
think god god maybe wants to challenge us

1230
00:49:01,240 --> 00:49:03,800
and that's part of the burden that's on

1231
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,600
my heart for over these uh next three

1232
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:08,540
sessions that we're going to look at together

1233
00:49:08,540 --> 00:49:12,120
now you've all traveled a long way it's

1234
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:15,100
quarter to nine i started on the road

1235
00:49:15,100 --> 00:49:18,240
myself this morning at 5 30 and with

1236
00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:21,120
various delays for accidents and whatever that we

1237
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:24,880
seem to encounter in uh where did we

1238
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,000
land i'd say austin it was atlanta wasn't

1239
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,440
it uh we didn't get here like most

1240
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:31,700
of you until what five or ten past

1241
00:49:31,700 --> 00:49:34,560
seven or something so how much strength do

1242
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:36,300
you have can you listen to a little

1243
00:49:36,300 --> 00:49:39,920
bit more you can well that's good because

1244
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:46,100
you're gonna have to okay we're gonna think

1245
00:49:46,100 --> 00:49:48,080
a little bit about the experience we had

1246
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:51,140
in england through the 60s and 70s and

1247
00:49:51,140 --> 00:49:54,660
80s because that's something that i can give

1248
00:49:54,660 --> 00:49:57,700
you some first-hand experience of now i'm

1249
00:49:57,700 --> 00:49:58,980
going to give you my version and then

1250
00:49:58,980 --> 00:50:00,760
you can get the real version from beresford

1251
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:04,180
but you know we all look at things

1252
00:50:04,180 --> 00:50:10,000
from slightly different perspectives in 1968 when uh

1253
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,360
well 67 i started 68 plus he did

1254
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:15,220
at bart's hospital things were beginning to stir

1255
00:50:15,900 --> 00:50:18,720
in britain in a way that is somewhat

1256
00:50:18,720 --> 00:50:22,020
analogous to where i believe things are here

1257
00:50:22,020 --> 00:50:24,760
in the united states at the moment uh

1258
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:28,480
the church was in serious decline in britain

1259
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,780
i mean very very serious here you still

1260
00:50:31,780 --> 00:50:35,060
have the veneer of spirituality uh churches are

1261
00:50:35,060 --> 00:50:36,700
full there are lots of churches you know

1262
00:50:36,700 --> 00:50:38,920
this type of thing uh but if you

1263
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:41,940
ask anyone statistically the numbers are dropping again

1264
00:50:41,940 --> 00:50:45,640
barnard says that 52 000 people a week

1265
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:47,900
am i correct am i getting the numbers

1266
00:50:47,900 --> 00:50:49,820
right you can correct me if i'm wrong

1267
00:50:49,820 --> 00:50:52,240
i think it is 52 000 a week

1268
00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:56,120
are leaving the church in north america never

1269
00:50:56,120 --> 00:51:01,280
to return the church is in serious decline

1270
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:05,940
that includes europe okay so uh north america

1271
00:51:05,940 --> 00:51:08,000
and europe i mean these are huge numbers

1272
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,360
uh in the part of london we were

1273
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:13,900
in at that point maybe one percent of

1274
00:51:13,900 --> 00:51:17,740
people would have called themselves christians and maybe

1275
00:51:17,740 --> 00:51:20,820
half that number one half of one percent

1276
00:51:20,820 --> 00:51:24,920
would have understood what a christian was okay

1277
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:28,880
that's a post-christian culture in spite of

1278
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,060
the veneer of christianity over here i would

1279
00:51:31,060 --> 00:51:33,060
suggest even here in the south you're already

1280
00:51:33,060 --> 00:51:36,060
into a post-christian culture statistically there is

1281
00:51:36,060 --> 00:51:38,500
no difference when you look at the major

1282
00:51:38,500 --> 00:51:40,720
social indices the amount of divorce the amount

1283
00:51:40,720 --> 00:51:43,100
of illegitimate pregnancy the amount of looking at

1284
00:51:43,100 --> 00:51:46,040
pornography on the internet all these sort of

1285
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:50,400
measurements of character there is no significant difference

1286
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:52,500
between christian and non-christian in this country

1287
00:51:52,500 --> 00:51:55,140
what a tragedy that what we call the

1288
00:51:55,140 --> 00:51:58,880
gospel has such a minimal impact upon people's

1289
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:01,140
lives in this land and so we're already

1290
00:52:01,140 --> 00:52:03,680
into a post-christian culture in this country

1291
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,220
okay that's where we were in britain in

1292
00:52:06,220 --> 00:52:09,640
the late 60s and god began to stir

1293
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:15,340
and pretty much spontaneously all over the place

1294
00:52:15,340 --> 00:52:17,820
little things began to happen for example at

1295
00:52:17,820 --> 00:52:20,700
the medical school where we were we're a

1296
00:52:20,700 --> 00:52:24,240
bunch of 17 18 19 year olds okay

1297
00:52:24,240 --> 00:52:27,140
we begin reading books like watchman needs the

1298
00:52:27,140 --> 00:52:30,540
normal christian life or watchman needs the normal

1299
00:52:30,540 --> 00:52:35,400
christian church life or books like roland allens

1300
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:37,700
the spontaneous expansion of the church and the

1301
00:52:37,700 --> 00:52:40,220
causes that hinder it or missionary methods st

1302
00:52:40,220 --> 00:52:42,940
paul's around what prompts 17 and 18 year

1303
00:52:42,940 --> 00:52:44,720
olds in medical schools to pick up books

1304
00:52:44,720 --> 00:52:46,400
like this and read them the spirit of

1305
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:50,020
god okay i don't remember anybody recommending those

1306
00:52:50,020 --> 00:52:51,860
books to us but the same sort of

1307
00:52:51,860 --> 00:52:53,940
thing was happening all over the country now

1308
00:52:53,940 --> 00:52:56,140
where we were in the medical school that

1309
00:52:56,140 --> 00:52:57,780
there was a christian group in england we

1310
00:52:57,780 --> 00:52:59,860
call the christian group in a university the

1311
00:52:59,860 --> 00:53:02,480
christian union and in those days we didn't

1312
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:05,040
have an intervarsity group and a campus crusade

1313
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:06,560
and a nav group or you know a

1314
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:08,760
baptist group and a methodist group all the

1315
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:10,980
christians just clumped together as a christian union

1316
00:53:10,980 --> 00:53:13,480
and we were exploring these things and we

1317
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:16,160
saw that what god was doing among us

1318
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:19,940
was church and so we began calling ourselves

1319
00:53:19,940 --> 00:53:24,000
church and we began taking just simple things

1320
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:27,520
like 1 corinthians 14 26 actually has a

1321
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:31,640
pattern for when god's people get together when

1322
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:34,260
we started calling ourselves church that caused an

1323
00:53:34,260 --> 00:53:39,140
absolute uproar in the evangelical community in britain

1324
00:53:39,140 --> 00:53:42,320
because a christian group in a university can't

1325
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:44,300
call itself a church oh it can be

1326
00:53:44,300 --> 00:53:47,300
parachurch you know almost church or something like

1327
00:53:47,300 --> 00:53:50,220
church or nothing like church in fact the

1328
00:53:50,220 --> 00:53:53,340
truth is the nothing like churches are much

1329
00:53:53,340 --> 00:53:58,180
more like church than the churches are and

1330
00:53:58,180 --> 00:54:00,280
we began to experience that in terms of

1331
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:02,240
what we were living i remember that that

1332
00:54:02,240 --> 00:54:05,880
summer just after we had got married when

1333
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:09,660
a girl worked her whole summer three months

1334
00:54:09,660 --> 00:54:11,720
and at the end of that summer came

1335
00:54:11,720 --> 00:54:13,780
and laid the whole sum of money she

1336
00:54:13,780 --> 00:54:15,740
had earned at our feet so that we

1337
00:54:15,740 --> 00:54:18,220
could have a car because she felt that

1338
00:54:18,220 --> 00:54:19,680
it was more important that we were able

1339
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:21,240
to get around with the work we were

1340
00:54:21,240 --> 00:54:23,160
doing with all the christians in the university

1341
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:26,800
than that she have her summer's work i

1342
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:30,040
mean that's people sharing their lives i remember

1343
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:31,820
that church sending us out into the east

1344
00:54:31,820 --> 00:54:34,460
end of london uh we were sent into

1345
00:54:34,460 --> 00:54:36,700
bethnal green you know you've heard of cockneys

1346
00:54:36,700 --> 00:54:38,580
haven't you they're people who are born within

1347
00:54:38,580 --> 00:54:39,940
the sound of bow bells well you have

1348
00:54:39,940 --> 00:54:42,440
a true cockney here jonathan okay in fact

1349
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:44,040
all of our kids were born within the

1350
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:48,060
sound of bow bells they're true eastenders now

1351
00:54:48,060 --> 00:54:50,300
you're probably too spiritual here to watch the

1352
00:54:50,300 --> 00:54:53,340
eastenders program aren't you but you know one

1353
00:54:53,340 --> 00:54:55,220
night when you're not feeling so spiritual have

1354
00:54:55,220 --> 00:54:56,500
a look at eastenders and you'll know where

1355
00:54:56,500 --> 00:55:00,340
we were working and it was amazing what

1356
00:55:00,340 --> 00:55:05,040
god began to do and patients began getting

1357
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:08,940
saved i remember a six-week period where

1358
00:55:08,940 --> 00:55:14,160
every day for six weeks one of my

1359
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:17,360
patients gave their lives to jesus over a

1360
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:19,620
period of a few years it got to

1361
00:55:19,620 --> 00:55:22,300
the place where on 17 contiguous you know

1362
00:55:22,300 --> 00:55:24,540
adjacent streets whatever the correct word would be

1363
00:55:24,540 --> 00:55:28,500
we had a house church formed it got

1364
00:55:28,500 --> 00:55:30,980
to the place where virtually any patient who

1365
00:55:30,980 --> 00:55:32,480
came to me when they had a problem

1366
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:34,840
or a need and i would share something

1367
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:36,240
very simple like you know have you ever

1368
00:55:36,240 --> 00:55:38,220
thought about praying about this and very often

1369
00:55:38,220 --> 00:55:40,420
they'd say yes but they had no idea

1370
00:55:40,420 --> 00:55:41,840
if god was there they had no idea

1371
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:44,000
if god could hear them uh and i'd

1372
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:45,080
say look we don't have a lot of

1373
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:46,560
time to talk about it now but would

1374
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:48,160
you like me to arrange someone to talk

1375
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:49,820
with you and they'd say yes i could

1376
00:55:49,820 --> 00:55:52,320
find someone in their street wherever they were

1377
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:55,040
within my patch of london who'd come and

1378
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:57,060
talk with them about jesus and hopefully lead

1379
00:55:57,060 --> 00:55:59,300
them to the lord i mean god was

1380
00:55:59,300 --> 00:56:03,320
doing something and it was so precious when

1381
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:05,420
people would walk back from mile end tube

1382
00:56:05,420 --> 00:56:08,260
station the opposite the tube station entrance was

1383
00:56:08,260 --> 00:56:10,600
about 200 yards from our home they'd come

1384
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:12,020
out of the tube station they'd come up

1385
00:56:12,020 --> 00:56:14,360
aloe road they would pass a christian home

1386
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,160
in aloe road we were a t a

1387
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:19,560
t to aloe road there was our home

1388
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:22,860
in street okay then they would kitty corner

1389
00:56:22,860 --> 00:56:25,580
across the road uh into the next section

1390
00:56:25,580 --> 00:56:27,500
of road there was a christian home there

1391
00:56:27,500 --> 00:56:29,560
then the next i mean these are all

1392
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:31,300
just a few hundred yards from each other

1393
00:56:31,300 --> 00:56:33,740
and there was another christian home there in

1394
00:56:33,740 --> 00:56:36,300
litchfield road and and this was god was

1395
00:56:36,300 --> 00:56:39,460
doing something in an area that really hadn't

1396
00:56:39,460 --> 00:56:41,520
seen any type of church growth of a

1397
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:45,540
meaningful sort in god was doing something we

1398
00:56:45,540 --> 00:56:48,020
were sharing out we never had any idea

1399
00:56:48,020 --> 00:56:50,520
for years on end how many people we

1400
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:52,740
were preparing stuff before you've been listening to

1401
00:56:52,740 --> 00:56:54,700
from the pulpit this week you heard tony

1402
00:56:54,700 --> 00:56:57,880
dale with his message simple church tune in

1403
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:00,080
next week for another powerful message from god's

1404
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:01,580
word on from the pulpit