There were a few questions that were sent
to me earlier on.
Do you have any more with you?
No.
OK.
If I'll answer the ones I have here
and then if there are any other questions,
I'd be glad to answer them.
One of the questions here relates to authority
in the church.
And 1 Timothy 2.12 states clearly that
authority in the church is male.
And it speaks in 1 Corinthians 11 again
about orderly behavior that a woman is not
to partake in public debates.
But it states that a woman can pray
or prophesy with her head covered.
And the wife should have her head covered
as a sign of subjection to her husband.
And some say the wedding ring is a
sign of today.
What does it mean here when it says
because of the angels?
OK.
Now, as you know, among believers, there's a
lot of difference of opinion on this.
But personally, this is how we have practiced
it in our churches.
And this is my conviction that Scripture teaches
very clearly that because Adam was made first
and he was made to be a helper
to Adam.
Therefore, that order in creation indicates that God
intended authority to be with the man.
That's very clearly written in 1 Timothy 2
.12 and 13.
A woman should not exercise authority over a
man because Adam was created first and then
Eve.
It's a very simple explanation.
And then the second thing is a woman
should not teach because a woman was deceived
and not Adam.
That reason is also given there.
So, there are two spheres of ministry which
a woman is not called to do in
a church.
One is being a leader and the other
is doing the teaching in a church.
Now, this is referring to the church because
in the next chapter, he says, I'm writing
all these things, chapter 3, verse 15, so
that you can know how to conduct yourself
in the church.
So, this is not talking about ministry outside
the church.
A woman can teach other women.
Titus chapter 2 says a woman should teach
other younger women.
A woman can teach children, can share the
gospel with unconverted people, men or women.
And that covers 90% of the world.
So, she has a sphere of ministry in
90% of the world.
And even within the church, she has a
sphere of ministry within at least 50%
of the church who are women.
And more than 50% because if you
include the children as well.
So, there's a very wide sphere of ministry
open to all women.
It's only a small sphere that's restricted of
teaching in the church and leadership.
Now, that's God's order.
It's just like, I mean, there's no use
arguing about it.
It's like God has not ordained that men
should bear children.
What to do about it?
God's given that privilege to women.
Okay.
We accept it.
We men accept it and say praise the
Lord.
We don't attempt to compete or any such
thing in that area.
We're glad to hand over that ministry completely
to women.
And that's what it says here.
You know, after it says about women should
not teach.
But it says a woman can bear children
in 1 Timothy 2.15. That's also a
ministry, you know, to bring up children in
the fear of God.
And the covering over the head is a
symbol.
Like many symbols, the 1 Corinthians 11 deals
with two symbols.
The first half of the chapter deals with
the head covering.
And the second half of the chapter deals
with breaking of bread.
Both are symbols.
And I've noticed that people who seriously accept
the last 12 verses of 1 Corinthians 11,
the last 12 verses deal with breaking of
bread.
They don't say that is a cultural thing.
But they do have a controversy over the
first 22 verses.
But it's in the same chapter.
Both are symbols.
The breaking of bread is a symbol of
Christ's body being broken for us and of
our union with Christ.
And 1 Corinthians 11 speaks about a woman
covering her head.
Symbolizing three things.
First, it says a woman, verse 7, is
the glory of man.
And the head of a woman, verse 3,
is the man.
So, therefore, a woman should cover her head
because the glory of man has to be
covered in the church.
And woman is the glory of man.
That's what it says here in verse 7.
A woman must cover her head because she
is the glory of man.
Man should not cover his head because he
is the glory of God.
The glory of God should not be covered
in the church.
It's a symbol.
The second is a symbol of authority, verse
10.
That a woman is taking the place of
submission if she is a wife to her
husband, if she is a daughter to her
father, if she is a widow to the
elder of the church.
Signifying that she takes the spirit of submission.
And it says here, because of the angels.
That was the question in this question.
Because of the angels, 1 Corinthians 11.10
means, it's a sort of a warning, not
only to women, but all who rebel against
authority.
Remember how the first angels fell.
The first angels fell through rebellion against authority.
That's how Lucifer became the devil.
So, I believe that's the meaning of that.
And I personally don't believe that we can
replace what's written in God's word with a
wedding ring or anything like that.
And the third reason is, it says a
woman's hair, verse 15, is given to her
as a glory.
You know, a major part of a woman's
attractiveness is her hair.
And if she shaves off her hair, she's
not going to be as attractive.
And I believe the third reason why it
says here a woman should cover her head
is that she should cover her attractiveness in
the church.
Perhaps to avoid distraction, I don't know.
But anyway, that's what scripture says.
It's a pretty long passage of 22 verses.
Sorry, not 22 verses, up to verse 16.
It's actually divided into 16 verses and then
the next 18 verses deal with the Lord's
table.
But at the end of this section, the
first 16 verses, he says, if anyone is
inclined to be contentious, Paul recognized that even
in that time, there were going to be
people who argue about this.
Like that's particularly in the last century.
The last 50 years particularly.
He says, if anyone is inclined to be
contentious, we have no other practice, nor the
churches of God.
So he says, that's how we do it.
And he leaves it at that.
We're not going to get into an argument.
Personally, in our church, I would say I
would teach this.
But if some sister didn't have a conviction,
I would say, well, it's up to you.
You do it as the Lord leads you,
as you are convicted about it.
Another question concerns divorce.
If an unsaved man summons his saved wife
for a divorce, because he wants to marry
another woman.
Is it right for that saved wife now
to marry again?
If she got saved after she was married
to her husband.
Now, there are many people who feel that
anything done prior to our conversion is blotted
out by the blood of Christ.
And all things, all things are passed away.
All things are become new.
But we have to be careful.
As far as God is concerned, that's right.
But there are human responsibilities that we have
that are not wiped out.
Just because we did it in our unconverted
days.
Supposing I borrowed a thousand dollars from somebody
when I was unconverted.
And then I got converted and I say,
well, you know, God's blotted out all the
past, brother.
I'm sorry.
I'm not going to return that money anymore,
because it's all gone.
That was the old man.
You know very well that that would be
totally unchristian.
Zacchaeus went back and returned all that he
did in his old days.
So, I mean, if you say that a
man's marriage is annulled just because he got
married as an unbeliever.
Well, then a lot of those people, you
have to consider them as single.
Then you can go and marry somebody else's
wife as well.
Because you say, well, that was when she
was an unbeliever, she got married to this
man.
But now she's not married because that happened
in the unconverted days.
No, I don't think it's true.
It doesn't make a difference when we were
married.
Because we must remember that marriage was not
instituted by God for Christians.
It was instituted for human beings, for society.
Adam was not a Christian.
He was a man.
And as a man, he needed a wife.
And God gave him a wife, not because
he was a child of God, but because
he was a man.
And if a Hindu gets married to a
Hindu woman in a temple, God recognizes that
marriage.
Those are two, what God has joined together,
let no man put us under.
If you say, well, because they got married
in a Hindu temple, they are not husband
and wife.
Would you say it's right to go and
marry that woman who's married to that Hindu
man?
No, we would get into ridiculous situations if
we ever went that way.
It doesn't make a difference when we were
married, even if we didn't have a proper
marriage ceremony.
It says about Isaac that he took Rebecca
into his tent and she became his wife.
I don't know, they never probably signed any
certificate or any such thing.
They didn't have paper in those days in
any case.
So, whichever way people get married in different
ways, in different cultures, but when they are
married, God accepts them as husband and wife.
And it's a very sacred relationship which must
never be broken.
There may be situations where a woman is
abused physically and probably sometimes very badly emotionally,
where I would even recommend that she stays
separately, but not divorce.
Because the Bible says in Malachi, God hates
divorce.
And we must take that position.
And where a person has divorced already, when
they come to the church, I would encourage
them not to marry again.
If they've already married and got children before
they came to the church, then I have
no command in Scripture.
In Scripture, Jesus only gave a command concerning
a person who's considering divorce, he should not
do it, and considering remarriage, he should not
do it.
But I don't see a command in Scripture
for those who are already divorced and remarried,
before they come to the church with their
children.
And so therefore, I would consider each case
by the principles of Scripture, which say, let
everything you do be done in love, in
compassion, not making the poor children suffer for
the sins of their parents, and with wisdom.
But one thing certainly, I would never give
such a brother any responsibility in a church.
Because the Bible says, an elder must be
the husband of one wife.
So if he's got two wives, the one
he's forsaken and the one he's married to,
he can never have responsibility in a church.
So these are the standards of God's word.
We can't make a law concerning every situation.
But to answer this question, it is not
right for her to marry again.
If she should consider herself as one who's
been forsaken by her husband, but as long
as her husband is alive, it's not proper
for her to marry again.
That's my conviction.
You know, it's interesting that in India, we
don't have this problem at all.
It's one of the blessings of poverty.
And I think my children went to a
school where there were a thousand students, and
not one of those students was from a
divorced family.
You can walk down a street with 200
houses and none of them will have divorce
in their homes.
So Indian culture frowns against it.
So we've had very little problem in this
area at all, by God's grace.
There are certain blessings that come with poverty.
And this is one of them.
Another is a question about if I really
desire godliness above all things, but I have
to be honest and say that I'm still
a mixed believer.
I started to pray that God would remove
the love of the world from my heart,
the lust of the flesh, eyes and pride
of life.
But I don't seem to be free from
it.
Now, first of all, we must be convinced.
There are a couple of things we must
be convinced about.
One is the seriousness of sin.
You know, if I think of sin as
a weakness, I won't take it seriously.
I mean, if you got a little patch
in your hand which you suspect is leprosy,
you would not take it lightly.
And if it's spreading, you wouldn't say, I
got a little bit of leprosy, it's okay.
What to do?
Is it spreading?
Yeah, it's spreading a little bit.
I mean, but that's the way people talk
about anger.
Brother, do you still lose your temper?
Yeah, I lose my temper once in a
while.
Does it happen more than once in a
year?
Sometimes it happens.
Leprosy is spreading.
You see, we take it so lightly.
And anything you take lightly, you'll never overcome.
You know, you go to a village, people
in the villages of India, they don't know
what cancer is.
Because leprosy, you can see, people are scared
of leprosy because there are visible evidences of
it.
But a person who got cancer in the
stomach, he doesn't know.
Okay, he lost his appetite a bit.
And the doctor examines that village woman and
says, you got cancer.
Oh, cancer, is it?
They just go about their work and, I
got cancer.
It's not serious, but an educated person, boy,
they are really scared.
They say, I've got to do something about
this to get rid of this cancer.
Now, I don't find that attitude among Christians
to say things like anger, the lusting with
the eyes.
I don't find that attitude.
And then I say, I'm not surprised that
such few folks don't get victory over sin.
So the first thing we need to be
convinced about is the seriousness of the sins
that Jesus spoke about, particularly in the Sermon
on the Mount.
Jesus spoke in the Sermon on the Mount,
Matthew chapter 5.
You just take Matthew chapter 5.
Anger, lusting with the eyes, sinning with the
hands, telling lies with the mouth, the desire
for revenge on someone who's hurt me, Matthew
chapter 6.
Seeking the honor of men.
These things Jesus hated.
He denounced it.
But I find lots and lots of Christians
don't seem to be taken up seriously with
these sins.
When I see, the Bible says, it's another
question here, it says about, it says faith
is the thing that overcomes the world.
How does this achieve daily?
Does God remove the affections in our heart
towards the world and things of the world
one day?
Or does this happen gradually as we exercise
our faith?
That's 1 John 5.4. It says, this
is the victory that overcomes the world, our
faith.
The world, according to 1 John 2.16,
is the lust of the flesh, the lust
of the eyes and the pride of life.
And 1 John 5.4 says, the victory
that overcomes this world is faith.
So that's the second thing we need.
One is to see the seriousness of sin.
The second thing is faith.
Faith in God's promise.
You know, faith doesn't come by imagination or
by, like I said earlier, my bright ideas.
There's only one way that faith can come.
Romans 10.17 says, faith comes by hearing
and hearing by the word of Christ.
The word of Christ is the New Testament.
This is the word of God, the word
of Christ is the New Testament.
And faith comes by hearing and hearing by
the word of Christ.
So, I cannot have faith for whatever I
want to have faith for.
No.
It must be based on the word of
Christ.
Now, if I try to have faith for
something which the New Testament does not promise
me, it will be very difficult to have
faith.
What I call faith will be just something
I try to work up.
See, faith must be based on God's promise.
God told Abraham, you are going to have
a son.
That's why he had to believe.
And that's the basis of his faith was
that God had told him.
And Abraham said, yeah, Lord, I believe that.
So, without God having first told Abraham, you're
going to have a son, however much he
may have wanted to have a son, he
couldn't have faith for it.
There was no possibility of faith where God
has not first spoken.
Now, if you can understand this simple principle,
if God has not first spoken, you have
no basis for your faith.
I mean, you can pray for it, but
that's not faith.
Faith is based on what God has revealed.
For example, I'd like to have hair on
my head.
Some of you who are not bald don't
realize what a tremendous advantage it is for
you to have hair on your head.
I don't mean just for good looks, I'm
not bothered about that.
I'm just thinking about protection when we go
out in the sun.
You don't need a cap, I need one
all the time.
Now, however much I may desire this, I
can't have faith for it, because I don't
have a promise.
In the New Testament it says, you ask
for hair and you'll get it.
So, I can hear some preacher say, brother,
trust God for hair on your head.
I struggle to trust God for hair on
my head, nothing happens.
I lose a few more the next day.
But, I'll tell you what I can have
faith for.
Romans 6.14 says, sin shall not have
dominion over you, for you're not under law
but under grace.
There I can put my foot down and
say, Lord, this wretched sin is having dominion
over me.
Anger, lust, telling lies, seeking the honor of
men, desire for revenge, bitterness.
These things are having power over me and
your word says it will not have dominion
over me.
I'm going to have faith.
Based on what?
A clear promise of scripture.
As clear as God telling old Abraham, you're
going to have a son.
Your wife's going to bear a baby.
Okay, Lord, I believe it.
So what if my wife is 90 years
old?
She's going to have a child.
He believed it because God said it.
So, if you can understand this simple thing
which says in Romans 10.17, Faith comes
by hearing and hearing by the word of
Christ.
It's not whatever you want.
It's what God has promised.
And it's what God has promised clearly.
Don't go to vague verses and imagine that
that's what God's promised.
You know, for example, it's a very common
thing nowadays for people to...
It's not nowadays, but the last 40-50
years people have been preaching on this verse.
You know what John wrote in his letter,
in the third letter of John.
Beloved, I pray that in all respects you
may prosper and be in good health as
your soul prospers.
It's the sort of thing which anybody would
write in a letter to anyone.
I would write that in a letter.
Brother, I hope things are going well with
you.
I hope your business is prospering and I
hope you're keeping healthy.
That's all John is saying.
Now, people have gone into that verse and
produced all types of doctrines on it.
That God wants all believers to be prosperous
and all believers forever to be healthy.
And have led people into tremendous bondage on
it.
Look for a clear promise in the word
of God.
Not John says, I wish this for you.
Paul once said, I wish all of you
were single.
Why don't people go for that?
You know, there's a verse like that.
1 Corinthians 7.
Paul clearly says, I wish all of you
were single like me.
You know, we have this selective choosing of
verses which suit our convenience.
And leave out the other ones.
No, no, no, no.
This is not the base of faith.
Is there a clear promise in scripture?
Why is it people choose that verse where
John says, I wish you'll prosper and be
in health.
And not choose what Paul says, I wish
you'll all be single.
It's the covetousness of man which draws him
to something which satisfies his lust.
The love of money is one of the
greatest lusts in our flesh.
The love of comfort.
The love of an easy life.
Is a tremendous lust in us.
And religion caters to that lust.
So, I'm just saying that we must be
careful that we exercise faith based on what
scripture says.
So, the first thing, I must see sin
as serious.
And the second thing, I must have faith
that in the new covenant.
It says in Romans 6.14, it's because
you're under the new covenant.
Romans 6.14 is a wonderful verse.
You shall, sin shall not rule over you
because you're not under the old covenant.
But under the new covenant.
In other words, under the old covenant, you
could not hope for victory over sin.
You could get forgiveness.
David said in Psalm 103, bless the Lord
O my soul who forgives all your sins.
But he could not say, bless the Lord
O my soul who gives me victory over
sin.
He could not say that.
Because he was under law, under the old
covenant.
But under the new covenant, you can.
Do you know, it's like, you know, when
man invented a cure for leprosy.
For years, there was no cure for leprosy.
But over the last hundred years or so,
there's been a cure for leprosy.
In the last few years, very good cures
for leprosy where now we can advertise.
It's advertised widely in India because a lot
of people have leprosy in India.
That if you get leprosy, go to a
doctor immediately because it can be cured totally.
You can become a perfectly healthy normal human
being.
Think that we can proclaim that.
And what would a leper who is living
without hope feel when he sees such a
notice?
He'll be so excited.
Boy, I thought I had to live with
this for life.
And here I'm promised that I can be
completely healed.
What about looking at your anger like that?
So often you lose your temper.
Think of it as a leprosy and here
you see the notice.
Anger will not rule over you.
You can rule over it.
You can finish with it.
So that it's under your feet, not sitting
on your head like it is.
Think of the bad testimony it brings in
your home.
Think of how it spoils the atmosphere in
our home.
Don't you think you should seek for that
more than for money and comfort?
Do you think money will bring happiness in
your home?
If you get victory over anger, that'll be
far better than if you get a little
more money.
Any day.
Why don't you seek for it?
Why don't you get excited?
Boy.
Think of a man who is struggling with
lust in his mind all the time.
Plagued with dirty thoughts.
And he sees one day the notice.
Sin shall not have dominion over you.
This does not have to rule over you.
Come into the new covenant.
Boy, it's a liberating message for him.
He must have faith.
God, you can do it.
You know, it says in Matthew 13, 58,
that he could not do many mighty works
in one place because of their unbelief.
That means God says something and you don't
believe it.
It won't happen.
God says, this particular sin that's bothering you,
it will not rule over you.
You say, well, Lord, I'm not too sure.
It's ruled over me for so long.
I can't get rid of it.
Okay.
And according to your faith, be it unto
you, you won't get victory over it.
A lot of people who don't believe what
God says, well, they say, I can't get
rid of it.
My dad had it.
My grandfather had it.
And I'm going to have it.
So what?
Why should I have it?
Just because my father and grandfather had a
bad temper.
I don't have to have it.
I'm in Christ.
I can be filled with the Holy Spirit.
I can experience things that my father and
grandfather never experienced.
Not because I'm a better person, but because
I believe God's word.
So it's very important that we believe God's
word in these areas.
And seek to live the overcoming life that
God wants us to have, wants us to
live.
And here is another question about a lot
of women nowadays who are concerned about how
they look, the ideal figure and weight.
I realize all this is vain, but it's
real.
My sisters and I spend a lot of
time discussing these issues, which we know are
not edifying, and yet there's a bondage in
it.
As if we cannot do or don't want
to accept ourselves the way we are.
I know that God accepts me completely, loves
me unconditionally, but I don't share those thoughts
concerning myself.
And I know He did not come to
better or save the flesh in me.
But I find in me a desire to
get the best of both worlds.
I hate this.
I wish it were not so.
I realize these things are like weights that
pull us down to crush our faith.
Now, I've realized one thing about this matter
of being fat or slim.
That part of it is hereditary, constitutional.
I've seen some people who eat such a
lot and are still slim.
And I've seen some people who eat so
little and they still get so fat.
So I realize this has got to do
with heredity and genes.
It's not our duty to judge anyone.
We must be comfortable with the way God
made us physically, our appearance, our height, our
constitution, and not constantly wish that God makes
me in some other way.
Gluttony is a sin to eat beyond what
we need.
We're not talking about that.
We're talking about being fat, which is not
always related to gluttony.
There are a lot of people who are
not gluttonous, who are fat.
I remember once I was in a place
where in a question-answer time, somebody asked
me this question.
Brother Zach, why are some people fat?
So I said, I'll answer that question.
I said, God has allowed some people to
be fat on earth to find out whether
the thin people will judge them or not.
So it's the thin people who are failing
because they judge someone.
You know like the Pharisee said, Lord I
thank you I'm not like other men.
And here's this person, thin person saying, Lord
I thank you I'm not fat like all
these other people.
I'm slim and attractive, am I not?
And it's that haughtiness that comes forth.
I believe it's very important in a world
where everybody's talking about this ideal figure and
being attractive and all that.
Well what can I do?
What can you do if your constitution and
your figure is certain?
Just say, Lord I thank you.
Man looks on the outward appearance.
I've got a continuous grouse against God, which
they don't express sometimes.
But why did you make me like this?
I want to say to you, you must
get rid of it.
If you haven't got rid of it till
today, get rid of it today.
Say, Lord I accept myself exactly as I
am.
You know we live in a, I live
in a country where there are people who
are very rich and very poor.
We have a thousand different standards of living.
We have Christians who are rich and extremely
poor.
And a whole range in between.
And it's not due to lack of faith
or anything that they are poor.
And it's not due to faith that these
people are rich.
It's the circumstances in which they were born.
In some cases they worked and earned and
had some good fortune in life, made money.
But, you know to accept one's circumstances.
Even if one is poor or rich and
say, Lord I thank you.
If I can make things better, fine.
You know the Lord, there is a verse
in 1 Corinthians chapter 7 which explains this
very clearly.
Which could apply to many many situations.
In 1 Corinthians 7 it says, Were you
called as a slave?
You know a slave was worse than a
servant.
There were people who were bought like furniture.
People would go and buy slaves.
Were you called while a slave?
Verse 21, did you get converted?
And when you were converted were you a
slave?
Don't worry about it.
If you are able to become free, do
it.
But if you are not able to become
free, don't worry.
Just accept it.
Because even if you are a slave in
the Lord, you are free from sin.
And the other person who is not a
slave, he has to be a slave of
the Lord.
So that's what it says here in verse
22.
So, I would apply that to whatever circumstance
you are in.
I mean, I would say to people in
my country.
Okay brother, despite all your best efforts are
you still poor?
Accept it.
If you can be better off, by all
means, be free, like it says here.
But if not, remember, real wealth is not
in these things.
Like it says in the book of James,
Let not the rich man glory in his
wealth.
It says here, God has chosen, verse 5,
the poor of this world to be rich
in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which
God has promised to those who love Him.
So, it may be poverty or wealth.
It may be being fat or slim.
It may be intelligence.
Some people are born intelligent, very intelligent.
And some people, they struggle with trying to
get their children to do well in school.
Well, what can they do if the children
are not so intelligent?
Emphasize to them the important thing is the
heart.
But this acceptance of ourselves in the way
God has made us is very, very important.
The parents God chose for you were the
right ones for you.
The home you grew up is the right
one for you.
To me, that's fundamental.
It's from that point that we grow spiritually.
There was a question about the health and
wealth gospel or the prosperity gospel.
Now, I come from a country which is
very, very poor.
It's the third world, India.
And I have proved the reality of Matthew
6.33, where it says, Seek first the
kingdom of God and His righteousness and all
these things.
All these things means?
Eating and drinking and clothing, all the necessities
of life.
Not the luxuries.
The necessities of life is what he has
spoken of earlier.
He says, don't look for these things.
These things that are necessary for you.
Your Heavenly Father knows that you need them.
They will be added to you.
So, I believe that a true disciple of
Jesus must spend his life seeking God's kingdom.
That must be his goal in life.
To get more and more of God's kingdom,
to promote God's kingdom.
To see that God's name is glorified in
the country or town you live in.
And the other things are not things you
are supposed to pursue.
God will add them according to your need.
And I have seen in every single case.
You know, when we started our ministry 27
years ago.
And I realized that God called me to
work in India.
Which is not the poorest, but one of
the poorest countries in the world.
The villages of India are extremely poor.
And we have people sleeping on the streets.
Not believers, but I mean poverty is so
widespread.
Many, many slums.
And I felt in this country.
If I can prove that in any country
in any century Matthew 6.33 is true.
The best place to prove it is in
a poor country.
I mean to prove it in America where
they have a social security system.
Or to prove it in England where they
have national health service and so many other
things free.
That's not such a great thing.
They have food stamps for the poor in
America and so many advantages.
In India there is nothing.
If you are poor, you are poor.
There is no social security.
You won't even get free treatment.
Because the government hospitals which do give treatment
are so pathetically poor.
In standards of hygiene and there is so
much bribery and corruption.
That you cannot get free medical treatment.
And there is so much of corruption in
so many areas.
So, so, so difficult to get employment.
Such congested quarters we live in.
I live in a city 6.5 million
people.
In the city I live in and the
size of the city is 20 km by
20 km.
6.5 million.
And India has an increase of population of
1.5 million every month.
18 million in a year.
Now that's not births.
That's births minus deaths.
It's increase of population.
18 million a year.
Which means 18 million more mouths to feed.
18 million more jobs one must have every
year.
18 million more people need to find transportation
by trains and buses.
Can you imagine the congestion there is?
Can you imagine the amount of unemployment there
is?
The corruption this type of thing breeds.
The shortage of food.
Everything.
And it's just increasing.
They say in another 10 or 15 years
we will overtake China.
And become the largest, most populated nation in
the world.
Is Matthew 6.33, does it still work
in such a country?
It does.
We proved it in 27 years.
Now I want to say, I have never
seen a single case.
This is a 100% success rate.
I have never seen a single case in
any village church of ours or any church.
Where a person has honored God and starved.
Never.
I have never seen a case where a
person has given himself to Christ and been
born again.
Without his standard of living going up.
Every single case.
Their standard of living goes up.
If they are in a slum.
We had a sister like that, who was
in a slum.
Got converted.
And I tell you, those slums are really
filthy.
It's like these shanty squatter towns you have
here.
Extremely poor.
She was converted and came to our church.
In a few months she was out of
the slum.
And not because we paid her anything.
If we start giving money to people, we
will have the whole of India at our
door in no time.
So we don't do that.
Because we wouldn't know who is coming for
the gospel and who is coming for money.
We never did that.
We just taught her to seek God's kingdom
first.
And we have seen it again and again
and again and again.
So many times.
I could write umpteen stories about the number
of people who have honored God.
And found themselves improving in their living standard.
Every single case, without exception.
And when you have a 100% success
rate in something, you know it's a law.
It's a law.
It's like they study in chemistry.
Two parts of hydrogen and one part of
oxygen will always produce water.
In any country, in any generation, in any
place.
Two parts of hydrogen and one part of
oxygen is always water.
Matthew 6.33 is like that.
I believe that with all my heart.
But I have also seen that what is
proclaimed today as the prosperity gospel is not
of God.
I don't have any doubt in my mind
about it.
It's a doctrine invented by covetous preachers to
justify the amount of wealth that they have
got.
You see, I have followed the charismatic movement
very closely right from its beginning.
And I have been in close touch with
some of the top leaders of the charismatic
movement.
In England, in America.
And I have seen a lot of it.
Been to charismatic conventions and everything.
And seen the development of this doctrine through
the years.
And let me tell you something of what
has happened.
In the beginning, there were so many people
who were fed up with the deadness of
their churches.
And they had a genuine touch from the
Holy Spirit.
And then there was a great need of
teaching.
And people came up with gifted teachers in
the charismatic movements.
And they began to teach typing.
It became a very strong thing.
And a whole lot of people began to
give tithes to their leaders.
And those leaders, preachers, became enormously wealthy.
And they began to feel little guilty about
this wealth.
Because the people who were giving them were
not so rich.
They were wealthy.
And then they had to find some justification
for this wealth.
And where could they find it?
They couldn't find it anywhere in the New
Testament.
So they went to the Old Testament.
They went to Deuteronomy and picked up verses
there which says, There are many verses under
the Old Covenant.
That you will get plenty of money and
plenty of children.
They left out the second part.
They just took the first part of plenty
of money.
It's in the same chapter though, by the
way.
Deuteronomy 28.
Plenty of money and plenty of children.
Both come together.
But the selective way which man has of
selecting what is convenient for them.
They are not men of integrity.
If you are a man of integrity, you
will take scripture as it is.
And found a verse to justify their increase
of wealth and said, This is the mark
of God's blessing.
It was in the Old Testament.
I don't question it.
But in the Old Testament, you also got
to offer sacrifice and do many other things.
In the New Testament, it's never mentioned as
a mark of God's blessing.
And the end result is, many of these
preachers have become immensely wealthy and now they
command such a high price if they are
to come and speak anywhere.
That's why none of them come to the
poor villages in India and preach this doctrine
because they can't get a good enough collection
there of money.
This is not the spirit of Christ.
Can you imagine Jesus living like this?
Jesus is the perfect example of a spiritual
man.
An example.
He was not wealthy.
If ever there was a man who deserved
to be wealthy, blessed by God, it was
Jesus and he was not.
People say, well, he became poor that we
might be rich.
Well, what about Peter?
Did Peter also become poor that I might
be rich?
No.
What about Paul?
They were some of the poorest people on
earth.
In fact, in 2 Corinthians 11, Paul says,
there were times when he didn't have enough
food to eat.
It says fastings and hungerings, which is different.
Fasting is deliberately giving up food.
Hunger is when you didn't have food.
And he says there in the same chapter
that he was shivering in the cold.
That means he didn't have enough money to
get a blanket.
This is God's greatest apostle.
Paul says, God's place as an apostle is
lost of all, the scum of the earth.
But what a lot he accomplished for God.
He didn't starve to death.
God gave him enough.
Now I've discovered this through the years in
India.
That if a man really honors God, he
will never be rich.
God will give him much, but he will
obey the exhortations in Scripture for rich people,
particularly in 1 Timothy 6, to share what
he has with the poor.
And then what will happen?
He won't remain rich much longer.
One of the finest teachings I ever read
on money was written by John Wesley, 250
years ago.
He said, he gave three laws for the
use of money.
Excellent.
He said, first of all, earn all that
you can.
Law number one.
That means he said, no more laziness.
Use everything in your power, with all the
gifts God's given you, all the capabilities, all
the intelligence, to make and earn as much
money as possible, without sacrificing your soul, and
without neglecting God's kingdom.
And that's important.
Not the way businessmen in the world do
it, where they neglect God's kingdom, neglect their
soul.
Earn all you can, no more laziness.
Rule number two was, save all that you
can, no more wastage.
Yeah.
Rule number two was, save all that you
can, no more wastage.
Which meant that, we should not buy unnecessary
luxuries.
Now, we have to leave it to each
individual to decide what is an unnecessary luxury.
It's not for me to decide what's unnecessary
for another person.
It's different in different cases.
In India, even a second car can be
a luxury.
In countries like the United States, even four
cars are not a luxury.
So, it's different in different places, and it's
true.
I mean, I've ridden a scooter, a two
-wheel scooter, because the price of petrol is
so high in India, for forty years, and
I say, I don't need anything else.
I'm okay.
So, we are not here to judge, what
is a luxury for another person, but don't
waste money on that which is unnecessary.
You got to decide before God what is
unnecessary.
And, thirdly, he said, give all that you
can.
Earn all that you can, save all that
you can, give all that you can, no
more laziness, no more wastage, and no more
stinginess.
A true disciple of Jesus is not a
miser.
He's not tight-fisted.
He's not stingy.
His palm is open, he's learned to give
to the Lord, and to his work, and
he never lacks anything.
I believe that's the right way, and I
believe that a person who seeks to do
that, will be tremendously blessed by God, and
I've seen people who have been so much
in debt.
Debt is a very big thing in India
among poor people.
They tend to borrow money for their needs,
and then they never get out of that
cycle of debt.
We have at least two or three people
in our church who were on the verge
of suicide, because they were so much in
debt, and they did not know how in
the world they could ever pay off that
debt in their lifetime.
You see, these are people who go and
borrow money from unscrupulous moneylenders, who lend money
to them at a 120% interest, and
they never get to paying their capital.
They are just paying interest all the time.
Every year they are paying more than their
capital in interest, and two or three such
cases I know in our church, who were
on the verge of suicide.
You see, that's what a lot of people
do in India when they are in debt,
and they know there is no way out
of it.
They gather their family together, and they eat
poison together, and all die.
And the man cannot get his money back,
because there is no way to get out
of debt.
And we have these three brothers who come
to our church, and we decided we are
not going to pay them their money to
clear their debt, because if we do that,
as I said, the whole of India will
be at our door.
But we taught them to seek God's kingdom
first.
And I remember one of the first time
I had this experience, I told this man,
I said, go to that covetous and evil
money lender, pray.
In Jesus' name we will pray together.
You go with another brother, and go to
that money lender, and tell him straight, I
am a poor man.
I don't have money to keep.
I have got children to look after.
I don't have enough money to keep on
paying your enormous interest rate.
I want you to write off my loan.
I want you to cancel my loan, because
I have already paid you the capital so
many times in interest.
And no money lender would ever do it.
I said, go and do it.
Tell him.
And this man went and told the money
lender.
The money lender said, OK.
That was unbelievable.
God is a God of miracles.
Now once that happened, I had more faith
to tell the second person to do the
same.
And here those three brothers, they didn't commit
suicide, they are totally free from debt today.
They were in enormous debt.
So, it's wonders that God can do when
we have faith.
Seek his kingdom first, and his righteousness.
One of the things I seek to do
in all our village churches, no matter how
poor people are, I say, you must be
free from debt.
I tell the elder brothers in our churches,
we have about 40 churches, more than 30
of them are in the villages.
When I started serving the Lord, I told
the Lord, I said, Lord, all the great
preachers go to the cities in India.
I'll go to the villages.
Those poor believers have every right to hear
a good preacher, not just the people in
the cities.
So, I decided to go to the villages,
and I've been tremendously blessed.
We've seen so many Hindus, so many poor
people come to the Lord, and who understood
the principles of God's kingdom, and found that
Matthew 6.33 works.
Their needs are met.
They've never suffered a lack in all of
our churches.
And then of course, we follow the principle
that once a person is, we would help
a person financially, like the Bible says, we
must help our brothers, only after a person
has proved himself to be a brother or
a sister.
In the church for, say, two or three
years, we know that the person is really
a believer, then we would help the person
financially.
If we do it before, we'd find a
lot of people come in just for financial
benefit.
But we've seen that we share and care
for one another, and just like in the
early church, it says nobody had any lack.
They didn't have all a common purse, and
have a common bank account, but nobody had
any lack.
That means not a single person in any
of our churches would ever have to starve,
or be unable to educate his children, or
shiver in the cold.
Everybody would have a blanket in the cold.
We make sure of that.
To me, that's Christianity.
It's not everybody becoming rich.
Jesus said, the poor you will always have
with you.
He said that in John chapter 12.
The poor you'll always have with you.
So they will be there, and that's the
opportunity we have as Christians to demonstrate our
love and care for those who are not
as well off as we are.
The other thing is about healing.
Now, the wealth and the health, the health
part.
You know, it's a very interesting fact.
I don't know whether you've noticed it, as
I've studied this subject in the Gospels, that
Jesus and the apostles never preached a single
sermon on physical healing.
If you don't believe me, find one, and
show it to me.
You look through the entire New Testament, Jesus
and the apostles, this is the first five
books of the New Testament, the Gospels and
the Acts, never preached a single sermon on
physical healing.
The Sermon on the Mount, it's not a
single word about physical healing.
It's not a single word about becoming wealthy.
The words about don't love money, and in
the Acts of the apostles too, the apostles
never preached it.
There are a lot of sermons on humility,
faith, purity, holiness, repentance, all the subjects concerning
character and life and godliness, but not a
single one on physical healing.
But he actually healed thousands.
Now, today we have thousands of sermons and
hardly anybody healed.
It's the exact opposite of what we find
in the Gospels.
I say, there's something wrong somewhere.
So many books and sermons, but Jesus never
did that.
So I'm not against healing.
The apostles healed the sick.
And I believe that if a man's got
the gift of healing, he'll exercise it exactly
like the apostles did it.
He won't preach sermons on healing, he'll heal
the sick.
That's what the apostles did.
And I say, if you've got the gift
of healing, go ahead and heal the sick.
Don't preach sermons on healing.
I mean, if somebody comes to me and
says, Brother Zak, why don't we have healing
in our church?
I say, go ahead and heal the sick.
We're not stopping any of you from healing
the sick.
But don't talk about it.
There's far too much talk in Christendom.
We need less talk and more action.
I say, if you've got faith for healing,
brother, go and lay your hands on the
sick and heal them.
You think any of those sick people will
object if you heal them?
But talk is worthless.
I've often told people this.
Don't ever go to a person and tell
him he's demon-possessed.
Jesus never told a person he was demon
-possessed.
Have you noticed that?
Jesus never once told a person he was
demon-possessed.
He cast out the demon.
I never go and tell a person you're
demon-possessed.
I cast out the demon.
If a person is demon-possessed, in Jesus'
name we cast out the demon.
That's what we do.
There's so many things that Christians are doing
today, which are not according to the New
Testament.
For example, these long, drawn-out sessions that
people have about casting out demons.
I have never in my life seen a
demon that won't go out in one minute.
If it takes longer than that, something's wrong
with you.
That's what I'd say.
Don't waste your time.
These long, drawn-out sessions that go for
hours and hours and yelling and screaming and
shouting and all.
Do you see that in the Gospels?
Do you see Paul doing it?
Do you see Jesus doing it?
Where did they learn this?
This is a tradition where the devil makes
fools of Christians.
Jesus always spoke with dignity.
He didn't have to yell or scream.
Do you know once, Jesus sat in a
room and cast out a demon miles away?
You don't know that instance?
Some mother came to Jesus and said, my
daughter is demon possessed.
The daughter wasn't with her.
The daughter was at home.
I don't know how many miles away.
This is in Tyre, in Syrophoenicia.
It's one of the few times Jesus went
outside Israel.
And that's the woman who said, that's the
one to whom Jesus said, I can't give
the children's bread to the dogs.
And she said, at least give me the
crumbs.
And Jesus said, for this saying, the demon
has gone out of your daughter.
Where was the demon?
Miles away.
And they heard.
I was speaking in the Pentecostal Bible school
once.
And at the end of the meeting, I
said, let's pray.
And this is the moment when we were
getting all the students to respond to the
message I had given.
And just at that moment, way down at
the end of the hall, 35 feet down,
boys started getting up and dancing in a
demon possessed type of way.
And I knew it was a demon.
And I knew that if I rebuked that
person publicly, everybody would lift up their heads,
look around, and the whole message would be,
they'd be distracted from what they had just
heard.
And that's exactly what the devil wanted.
And I said, we're not going to let
the devil get an advantage here.
So I, there was no mic there.
I turned away from the mic so that
there'd be no, my voice wouldn't be heard.
And I whispered in such a way the
person sitting behind me wouldn't hear.
In Jesus' name.
He came out.
He went and sat down immediately.
And that's the day I heard that those
demons have got good hearing.
Now, you may say that was a coincidence.
I didn't talk to that boy.
I had to go off immediately after the
meeting and went off somewhere.
Six months later, I get a letter from
Mauritius, from the island of Mauritius.
And this chap, I've never met him.
He says, Brother Zak, you don't know me.
I've never talked to you, you've never talked
to me.
But I am the young man whom you
commanded to sit down that day in the
meeting.
I said, how did he know I commanded
him to sit down?
How did he hear that?
That confirmed to me.
Demons have good hearing.
You don't have to yell and scream at
them.
If you don't have authority, you try to
make up for that by yelling and screaming.
When you have authority, you can speak quietly.
You know the difference between authority and power?
In India, in many places, we don't have
traffic lights.
We have the old system of a policeman.
I don't know whether any of you older
people remember that in South Africa perhaps too.
Stand up and hold his hand.
And that one tiny little man makes all
those massive trucks stop.
That's authority.
Those trucks can run him down anytime.
But when he lifts up his hand, they
stop.
Jesus said, I give you authority over all
the power of the enemy.
So, I believe that demons should be cast
out wherever we encounter them.
We don't go looking around for demons.
Jesus didn't.
And the apostles didn't.
But when they came across their way, they
always dealt with them.
We don't allow the devil to interfere with
our lives.
I remember once in a meeting, we were
having a Bible study in a conference.
I don't remember if somewhere, we just started
the Bible study, 10-15 minutes into the
study, suddenly a man came through the aisle,
crawling on the floor like a snake.
And, we just rebuked the demon and told
the man to lie down there and he
just slept.
Immediately.
So, we are not going to let the
devil come and disrupt our Bible study.
The next one hour is for Bible study
and the devil is not going to change
our program.
We finished the Bible study and we prayed
and said Amen and he got up.
So, God has given us authority.
We must exercise it.
I believe in casting out demons.
I believe in seeking God for something even
better than healing.
That's health.
As long as we live in this world,
we live in a world which is under
the curse.
Please remember that.
We cannot expect perfect physical healing and health
in this world.
Thorns will still poke your feet.
You may still get the flu.
You may get a cough and a cold.
You'll get headaches, tummy aches.
These things will be there because we live
in the world.
But they need not hinder your service for
God.
That's the thing I've discovered.
It's the Lord's business.
And He'll do it.
In His own time, in His own way.
I remember when we started in 1975.
For seven years, the Lord did not allow
us to go outside Bangalore.
We started as four families and after about
seven years, we were about 60.
Okay?
We were still meeting in our house for
most of those seven years.
And the Lord didn't allow us to go
out.
It was a period of learning to consolidate
the work the Lord had begun.
To learn to love one another.
And to become a body, a functioning body.
Then, for the next 20 years after that,
the Lord took us to different places and
raised up churches all over.
40 churches at least and many others.
And in every place, emphasizing discipleship.
And if we had not emphasized discipleship, we're
just interested in converts, we'd probably have 400.
But we're not interested in 400 churches of
converts.
We'd rather have 40 churches of disciples.
Most of them starting in homes.
Little homes, starts with 3-4 people, then
become 10, 40, 50, like that.
Fellowships where people seek to follow the principles
of God's Word.
But, because the Lord had done a work
of consolidation first in our place, we could
tell these people to come and see what
the Lord had done.
You know, the great difference between Old Testament
and New Testament is this.
In the Old Testament, it was come and
hear.
In the New Testament, it is come and
see.
In the Old Testament, it is come and
hear what Moses has brought down as a
message from the Lord.
In the New Testament, it is come and
see what the Lord has done in our
midst.
And I believe that the Lord wants to
build a church where He can...
You remember those two disciples in John chapter
1 who came to Jesus and said, where
are you living?
And He said, come and see.
And today, people come to Jesus and say,
Lord, where are you living?
And the Lord says, come and see in
this place.
This is where I'm living.
That should be your church.
That should be my church.
Where people can come and see what the
Lord has done in families, in lives, in
homes, in the way the children grow up.
I believe that even in the way the
children sit in our meetings, in our church,
that itself is a testimony to somebody who
comes to our Sunday meeting.
The way they sit respectfully, reverentially in fear
of God, and the relationships in the home,
and the way the believers care for one
another.
We have conferences, 7 or 8 of them
in a year in different places.
2 in Bangalore and 5 or 6 in
other places in other languages.
And when people come to us, what they
see is not just the message, but the
spirit of fellowship.
And I believe that's what they should see
in a church.
And then they'll want that themselves.
I'll close with a little story.
You know, in our Indian trains, we have
little boys sometimes going around selling peanuts down
the trains through the compartments.
There was this boy who was trying to
sell peanuts and nobody wanted to buy it.
And he's trying to get his living off
these peanuts.
So he did a very clever thing.
He sat on a bench and started eating
the peanuts.
And you know what happens when people start
eating peanuts?
The smell of it pervades.
And all of a sudden, one after the
other, people started buying peanuts.
And I feel sometimes it's like that.
We go around preaching, preaching, preaching, preaching and
nothing happens.
Nobody wants what we have.
But when they see that the Lord has
done something in us and they come into
our midst, they'll want that.
Let's pray.
Heavenly Father, we thank you for our fellowship
together this day and for your word.
We pray that what we have spoken will
bring lasting fruit and blessing in each of
our lives.
And in this church as well in the
days to come.
In Jesus' name we pray.
Thank you very much.
He went all by himself.
14 kilometers, took the train, took the bus,
found his way, groped around and ended up
in a Catholic church first and then found
his way, finally he came to the meeting.
I wish somebody would open his eyes.
All are welcome to come and try.
How would I be against healing?
What shall I tell this person who is
sincerely seeking to follow the Lord?
You don't have faith?
The Bible says, if any man is sick,
let the elders of the church pray for
him and the prayer of faith will save
the sick.
That's supposed to be my faith.
So what I would go to him and
say is, Brother, I don't have faith.
It's not you.
I don't have faith.
Here is a brother who really longs to
be healed.
We have another young sister in our church
who walks on crutches.
She has been walking on crutches because of
polio for many years.
I long to see her throw away her
crutches and walk.
I don't want to taunt her by saying
you don't have faith.
I say, I don't have faith.
I won't put the blame on her.
It's easy to always quote that verse that
Jesus couldn't heal somebody because they don't have
faith.
But to the best of my knowledge, here
is a person who has trusted Jesus for
salvation, for something far more important than healing.
And if they got faith for salvation, how
is it that they don't have faith for
something less?
No.
I don't think we have the final answer
in this.
And I don't believe that that is the
gospel in any case.
To me the gospel is that sin shall
not rule over you.
That God can do a work in us
where we not only overcome sin, but God
can bring a number of us together and
do that tremendous miracle of making us one
body.
That is the greatest miracle in the New
Testament.
Far greater than prosperity or healing.
Do you know how difficult it is to
make two people one?
Go and ask any husband and wife.
Any husband and wife.
It's very very difficult to make two people
one.
Imagine making twenty people one in a church.
That is the greatest miracle.
That is what Jesus meant when he said,
greater works than I have done, shall you
do.
John 14.12 What is the greater work
than Jesus did that we can do?
Jesus raised a man who was dead for
three days.
Am I going to go and raise a
man who was dead for seven days?
I've never seen anyone do it.
Jesus fed five thousand with five loaves.
Am I going to feed ten thousand with
five loaves?
I've never seen anyone do it.
What is the greater thing than Jesus did
that I can do?
It is what Jesus could never do in
his lifetime.
Make two people one.
Even at the last supper they were all
arguing as to who is going to be
the leader after Jesus dies.
Can you imagine?
They were not one.
This is the great thing.
And why couldn't Jesus do it?
Not because of any limitation in him.
But because the Holy Spirit had not yet
come to dwell in these twelve disciples.
That's why.
And after the day of Pentecost, when the
Holy Spirit came to dwell in people, then
we can do what even Jesus could not
do.
That's like saying, here was this great one
of the great scientists of our century of
the last hundred years was Albert Einstein.
But I can do some things that Albert
Einstein cannot do.
Some calculations I can do which Albert Einstein
cannot do because I've got a computer which
he didn't have.
And I can do some calculations much faster
than he could do.
Is it because I'm cleverer than Albert Einstein?
No.
I've got more facilities than he had.
Is it because I'm better than Jesus that
I can do what he could not do?
No.
We are living in the day of the
Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit has come and dwelt people.
It was not true on the day of
the Last Supper.
So therefore this is the greatest miracle that
we should long to see.
A local church functioning as a body.
And I want to say my brothers and
sisters this is the burden.
I carried this burden in my heart for
ten years.
From 1965 to 1975.
I was a young man of about 25
years old when this burden first came to
my heart.
I wanted to see a New Testament church.
A church where people love one another.
Where they love Jesus more than anything else
on earth.
Where they live together as a family.
Not all perfect people.
No.
No church has got perfect people.
But where they have a love and a
care and a concern for people.
There will be the odd fox here and
there.
We can't avoid that.
Wolves.
The odd wolf who gets into the flock.
Okay.
I mean that will happen.
But that there would be a flock of
people who love one another.
And I took ten years before we began
to see the beginnings of that in Bangalore.
And through the years how God has raised
up other churches too.
But to me this is the greatest thing
I have longed to see in India.
We keep on praying for it.
That God will raise up apostles, prophets, evangelists,
shepherds, teachers across our country.
So that little assemblies of God's people can
manifest like a light shining in different parts
of this country.
Manifesting that perfect unity and love that Jesus
said would be the identifying mark of his
disciples.
And I believe that's the same need in
South Africa.
There are lots of people wondering where can
I go to find a good fellowship?
Where they are not off on this extreme
or off on that extreme.
You know Christianity has always suffered from a
disease called Pendulumitis.
For number of years people will go off
on a extreme in one thing.
And then people react against that and go
to the opposite extreme.
Shall I join the church which is at
that extreme or the church which is at
this extreme?
I don't want to be in either.
I want to be in a church that's
walking the narrow path which is believing this
and believing that but not off on a
tangent.
This is the trouble in so many areas.
You know we have people who emphasize the
fruit of the Spirit and emphasize the gifts
of the Holy Spirit.
I say which should we emphasize?
The Bible says let's run the race looking
unto Jesus.
What did Jesus have?
Which of the two?
Both.
So which should I have?
I should have both.
Our church should have the gifts of the
Holy Spirit.
Our church should have the fruit of the
Holy Spirit.
It's the same.
Jesus had grace and truth.
Which should we have?
Grace and truth.
God is kind.
God is strict.
What should we be?
Kind and strict.
What should a father be?
Kind and strict.
There's always a balance.
The trouble in Christendom I find in a
lot of churches is imbalance.
It's not that some churches have got unscriptural
doctrines.
But some churches it's not unscriptural doctrines.
Now take the matter of tongues.
I've spoken in tongues for 27 years and
I thank God for it.
It's the love language between me and my
heavenly bridegroom.
But to me tongues is like a little
finger.
It's not the heart of my Christian life.
The heart of my Christian life is love,
humility, purity.
These are much more important to me than
speaking in tongues.
But when you take speaking in tongues and
you make this little finger 12 feet long,
you know you'll be a nuisance wherever you
go.
Try getting into a car with a 12
foot long finger.
You won't be able to shut the door.
Or if you do shut the door, your
finger will be sticking out of the window
all the time, hurting everybody else along the
way.
And you see how people are going to
hang up on tongues?
They are a nuisance wherever they go.
And so you see these people with these
big 12 foot long fingers and then you
have another group saying, Hey, this is all
heresy.
We don't want tongues at all.
They cut it off altogether.
So what should we do?
Cut off the little finger?
I say no.
Keep it the proper size and everything is
okay.
That's what I mean by balance.
You know, truth is like this human body.
You know the beauty of this human body
is in balance.
Think if you had one big eye and
one the right size.
You can say you've got two eyes.
That's the way a lot of Christians are.
They say we preach this doctrine and this
doctrine, but they are not balanced.
They over emphasize some doctrine and under emphasize
another.
It's like having one small eye and one
big eye.
Okay, you've got two eyes, brother, but they
should be the same size.
Otherwise, you're ugly.
This is the trouble with a lot of
Christians.
They say we preach this, we preach this,
but I said you preach it in the
same proportion that scripture preaches it.
For example, I told you that Jesus never
preached a sermon on healing.
The apostles never preached a sermon on healing.
They actually healed the sick.
That's what we should do.
Or you go to the New Testament episodes
right from Romans to Jude.
Do a little homework on this and find
out.
From Romans to Jude, there are umpteen verses,
hundreds of verses on humility, faith, goodness, holiness,
love, forgiveness, so many things.
You know how many verses on physical healing?
Two.
If you think I'm wrong, just prove me
wrong.
I'm not wrong.
It's absolutely true.
Why is it then we have such an
emphasis on physical healing?
It's like having a big huge year and
then we say we've got two years.
Yeah, you've got two years, but one is
out of proportion to the other.
Everything should be the correct size.
I have longed to build a church where
we preach truth and give emphasis to it
in the proportion in which the Bible gives
emphasis to it.
That means if the New Testament places tremendous
amount of emphasis on faith, I want to
speak about faith a lot.
If the Bible gives little bit of importance
to speaking in tongues, I give little importance
to that.
And if the Bible gives even less importance
to say a woman wailing her head, okay,
I give even less importance to that.
And if the Bible gives a lot of
importance to humility and love and goodness, I
give a lot of importance to that.
I say the great lack today is balanced
teaching with the emphasis on balanced.
There's a lot of teaching, but balanced teaching
of the word of God.
And part of the problem is because a
lot of today's Bible teachers and evangelists are
not related to a local church.
We have a whole lot of teachers today
who are teachers.
They conduct teaching meetings.
You go and ask them, brother, have you
built a church somewhere?
No.
They go for interdenominational conventions and preach and
teach but they've never built a single church
anywhere.
And I say so that teaching ministry is
not related to building a local church.
Now Paul's teaching ministry was related to building
a local church and many churches.
And it's only in that context that you
can have a balanced teaching ministry.
That's what I discovered for the first nine
years of my life after I quit my
job in the Navy.
I traveled around as a teacher, Bible teacher.
I was traveling for deeper life conventions in
England and Australia and here and there.
I didn't have any local church.
And I didn't know where I was in
balance.
But when you start building a local church
then you begin to see the problems there
are.
It's like raising children.
And a lot of people don't want that
problem of trying to build a local church
so they're just determined to be interdenominational Bible
teachers.
To me they are like single people giving
lectures on how to raise up children.
And they may be teaching all the right
theories but you ask that person brother, how
many children have you raised up?
No, I'm not married.
There are a lot of people like that.
So I've taught people in our church Before
you listen to all these wandering American preachers
who come to India, just go and ask
them a question.
What's your family life like?
Are your children born again?
Are your children following the Lord?
If they are not born again and not
following the Lord I'd say brother, please go
back home and bring them up properly first
before you come here and teach people in
our country.
Why have you traveled half way around the
world to teach us what?
You haven't brought up your home right.
That's the number one question I tell people
to ask.
Secondly, I ask them have you built a
church where people love one another?
No.
Then what are you coming half way around
the world to teach us?
You can't teach us anything.
I would respect a man who has brought
up a godly home and has built a
church where people love one another.
That's what gives that man authority to speak
to me when he teaches.
Because he's labored.
He's worked.
You know how difficult it is in this
day and age to bring up children in
a God fearing way.
In this evil world.
I respect a man who's done it.
You know how difficult it is in this
day of confusion and false teaching and deception
to build a church.
Not a perfect church.
There is no perfect church.
But a church where people love one another
and are balanced in their understanding of truth.
So, that's the great lack.
And I believe that's what we need to
pray much more for that God will raise
up such churches.
Here's a question on inner healing and psychology.
Now, there's a lot of teaching on inner
healing.
I've been in meetings in charismatic circles.
I remember years ago going for a charismatic
convention in England 27 years ago.
And there was this session on inner healing.
And they were some of the top, world's
top speakers on inner healing.
One was the sister of President Carter.
She was also there.
And another Roman Catholic priest.
And they were...
And I sat there.
I was a young Christian.
This was the first time I was listening
to this.
And they took us back into our mother's
womb and asked whether there could have been
your mother may have rejected you and forgive
her.
And all this went all the way right
up.
And I felt this is it's amazing that
psychology has come right into the Christian church.
Jesus spoke about forgiving people but he didn't
take us through this process.
You know, you know in your heart if
you've got anything against anyone.
You don't need time.
If I ask you right now, in fact
whenever I pray for people who are sick
I always ask them one question.
Only one question.
Do you have anything against anyone?
That's the only question I ask because I
say there are a lot of sicknesses that
are on people because they've got a bitterness
against someone.
They haven't forgiven somebody.
I say it's no use my praying for
you.
You will not be healed if you have
got some bitterness in your heart against anyone.
So I say if I were to ask
you right now.
You won't even need one minute.
You don't have to go and scratch and
dig to find out.
You'll know immediately.
Is there somebody who did some harm to
you anytime in your life whom you have
not forgiven?
I always say forgive that person right now
unless you want to destroy yourself.
You're not going to destroy that person.
You're going to destroy yourself.
So I believe in forgiving people whether it's
that I have.
It's not a healing of my memory.
It's clearing my conscience.
That's what I call it.
Your conscience convicts you because you have not
forgiven someone.
You must forgive that person otherwise God your
father will not forgive you and your prayers
will not be heard.
That the Bible teaches.
I believe we need to be free from
fears that we have had.
Jesus always came with the message fear not.
And I believe that that there's only one
thing that drives fear out of our heart
and that's faith.
Faith in a loving heavenly father who cares
for me.
So one of the major points of my
preaching throughout the years has been God loves
you as a father.
He's a good God.
He's a father who cares for us.
And we need to find our security in
the love of God as a father.
I believe a lot of people who live
in our day and age don't know the
security of God as a loving heavenly father.
And that's why there's so many inner tensions
which they can't express to anyone.
I believe there's a great need for preaching
on that.
So once we preach these things that Jesus
spoke about.
Use the language of scripture.
The reason I don't use words like inner
healing and all is because it's not in
the Bible.
I believe the Bible is the complete inspired
word of God.
I don't need anything outside of it to
become a spiritual man.
And so I would prefer to use the
language of scripture which speaks about the love
of a father for me and forgiveness forgiving
other people.
Psychology.
I believe there's a lot of as I
said earlier in the session that a lot
of things that people do today are psychological
manipulation of people to get them to do
something.
Conditioning their thinking.
You know for example you get people into
a large stadium or hall and work them
up with music and you know either loud
music or soft music and it's all a
psychological technique and get them to be excited
and come into a certain frame of mind
and then get them to speak in tongues
or get them to trust the Lord for
healing or whatever it is.
See these are all psychological tricks.
The Lord did all this.
Can you imagine Peter doing it?
How much music did Peter have on the
day of Pentecost?
Nothing.
He had no choir, no body playing any
instruments, no drums nothing.
It was genuine power of the Holy Spirit.
When Paul saw a man lame on the
streets of Lystra he didn't try to work
up his faith with a choir and so
many things.
He just said get up in Jesus name.
When Peter and John saw the lame man
it was always like that.
I say just be careful in this area.
Music is a I'm sorry to say that
I believe in music.
We have drums, we have keyboards, we have
everything in our church.
But I never believed that that's a substitute
for the Holy Spirit's power and unfortunately music
is gradually in the church today becoming a
substitute for genuine Holy Spirit power.
The other thing that's becoming a substitute for
genuine Holy Spirit power is money.
Music, money and soul power in the pulpit,
manipulation you know stirring people up in emotional
way.
I remember when I was a young Christian
and I started preaching.
I said Lord in everything in my life
I want to do it as far as
possible the way Jesus did it.
That's the best way.
You know if I were to live my
life or spend my money or spend my
time, I want to try and understand how
Jesus would spend his time, how Jesus would
spend his money, how Jesus treated people, how
Jesus looked at women, how Jesus looked at
his enemies, everything Jesus is the example.
So I studied the Gospels to see how
Jesus preached and I said Lord as far
as possible I want to try and preach
the way Jesus preached.
I found that Jesus spoke in a very
simple way.
He spoke in a way that even children
could understand.
He used a lot of illustrations and he
spoke in a way that people's hearts were
touched.
Their hearts would burn listening to him.
He was never boring.
Not even for one second was Jesus boring.
All boring sermons are because you don't seek
to follow Jesus' example.
You are not filled with the Holy Spirit.
And the other thing was I can't imagine
if he, of course he didn't have a
mic in those days but even if he
did have a mic I don't picture Jesus
running around up and down a platform with
a mic.
I can't picture that in Jesus.
And that's American.
I want to follow Jesus.
But I see so many people in India
who blindly follow these techniques to try and
work up people.
You know we have some Pentecostal denominations in
India where they gradually build up the tempo
and the drums get faster and faster and
the people start bouncing on their knees faster
and faster and when it reaches a certain
decibel level they say, oh, now the Holy
Spirit has come.
This is all psychology.
Genuine Holy Spirit power does not need any
of these things.
I remember when I first was seeking for
the baptism of the Holy Spirit and I
went to a Pentecostal pastor and I asked
him to pray for me.
I was young, 23 years old.
I didn't know anything.
I was born again, I was baptized, but
I was not baptized in the Holy Spirit.
And he said, well, keep on saying hallelujah.
Keep on saying hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah.
This is the technique in India.
The techniques are different in different places.
Anyway, hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah.
If I keep on doing it for about
half an hour, finally my tongue will trip.
He said, that's tongues.
I said, I'm not going to do that.
I said, the apostles didn't do that.
There's a lot of coaching people to speak
in tongues these days.
I don't believe in it.
If somebody coached you into it, it's definitely
not genuine.
I remember when God finally gave me tongues,
I didn't even expect it.
I was praying in English, all of a
sudden I found myself uttering syllables I had
no intention to utter.
That's how I knew it was genuine.
So, this is all psychological manipulation of people.
So much of it is going on in
the world today.
It's not making people holier, it's not making
people more effective for God's kingdom, not making
people better disciples, but so many Christians blindly
seem to accept it.
I believe the great need is for God's
people to go back to the Bible, to
understand the balance that is found there in
Scripture, to make Jesus your example, to make
Paul, who said, follow me as I follow
Christ.
These are wonderful examples to follow.
For example, take the matter of money.
When we started building our churches in India
27 years ago, one of the things we
saw in India was, as I said, all
these people sending reports, which you decided not
to do.
The other thing we saw was that Christian
workers were making a lot of money in
the name of Jesus.
People who, if they were doing a secular
job, would have earned very little, came into
Christian work and are earning ten times more
in Christian work than they would have got
in a secular job.
It should actually be ten times less, not
ten times more.
When Jesus came from heaven to earth to
serve us, did he get more or less?
He got less.
Paul could have made much more money as
a businessman in Tarsus than he made as
an apostle.
So we decided right from the beginning that
all our workers would be tent makers, including
myself.
I've served in the church in Bangalore 27
years.
I have not received one cent from that
church.
I've supported myself.
And that's been true of all our 40
churches, all the elders.
We're not against people being given a gift
when they serve the Lord.
That's okay.
The laborer is worthy of his hire.
The Bible says that if somebody teaches you
spiritually, it's right to reward him materially.
All that is true.
But we found that if we make people
dependent on money being given from the church,
it leads to a lot of abuse.
And for the same reasons that Paul decided
to make tents and to support himself, we
did that and we found it works.
And we found it's protected us from a
lot of professional people who would join us.
Professional preachers, I mean, who join us just
for the sake of material gain and profit.
I mean, these are principles that we got
from Scripture.
From the example of the Apostle Paul.
So I'd say, follow the example of Jesus.
Follow the example of Paul.
Paul wasn't a wandering Bible teacher.
He established churches.
So we decided we're going to establish churches.
We're going to appoint elders in churches.
Just like the New Testament says.
We're going to encourage them to seek for
the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
And exercise the gifts.
And prophesy in the meetings.
That means share God's word in the meetings,
not just a one man show, etc.
Everything we got from Scripture.
And what Scripture, we followed this rule, that
what Scripture spoke a lot about, we would
speak a lot about.
The New Testament particularly.
What the New Testament spoke very little about,
we would speak very little about.
And what the New Testament was silent about.
We would be silent about, we'd have our
opinions, but we'd give perfect freedom to another
person to have his own opinion.
The New Testament speaks nothing about birth control,
family planning.
So we don't talk about it.
You see, you can have your own view
on that.
You can have freedom.
Whatever the New Testament is totally silent about,
we're totally silent about.
We give one another freedom.
So that's how we found that the Lord
encouraged us through the years in our churches.
Another prayer that we have taught all our
churches to pray is this.
Lord, lead us to those who are seeking
for a godly life in this town so
that we can bless them.
Lead them to us or lead us to
them.
And if you don't do either of these,
tell us what's wrong with us.
Why can't you, Lord, recommend our church to
somebody?
And the Lord will speak to us and
say, well, you're a bunch of Pharisees and
that's why I can't recommend you.
Okay, Lord, forgive us.
Show us our Pharisees.
I'll tell you, the Lord has shown us
a lot of legalism and Phariseeism in our
church through the years and we have repented
of it.
We have tried to be loving like Jesus
instead of legalistic and Pharisee.
People who came to our church 10 years
ago will see a big difference when they
see our church today.
And we have seen that the Lord leads
us to godly people.
And then we begin to pray, Lord, lead
us to people who are seeking for a
godly life in our country and around the
world.
And God does that and I believe that
we should pray for that.
Lord, lead us to those who are seeking
a godly life.
See, there are two ways of doing evangelism.
Let me close with that.
Evangelism is like trying to find needles in
a haystack.
You know that expression in English to find
a needle in a haystack.
Let's assume that in this huge haystack, there
are a hundred needles and you've got to
find them.
You've got to find the people who are
seeking after godliness in this haystack of one
billion people.
Or if you take our university, six million
people.
Now, one way to do it is to
go into the haystack and separate each bit
of hay and see if there's a needle
there.
And that'll take ages.
In my lifetime, I may cover one percent
of that haystack.
And find a few needles in the process.
Another, more efficient way would be to have
a very powerful magnet outside the haystack and
pull out those needles one by one.
That's what a church is supposed to be,
you know.
A church is supposed to be a very
powerful magnet of people who love Jesus with
all their heart and love one another fervently.
That God is able to, the Bible says,
God is able to add, the Lord added
to the church.
Acts 2.
Those who should be saved.
That's a wonderful verse.
I think it's Acts 2, 47.
It's one of the last verses in Acts
2.
The Lord added to the church.
And what the Lord has told me is
this.
Your job is...